tv_talk | Speak Up Saturday

Excited about checking out:

1. Andor S2 - finally going to start watching it.

2. Department Q on Netflix - starring Mathew Goode as a down on his luck grumpy Scotland Yard Detective - it's gotten weird reviews. The critics seem to love it.

3. Captain America: Brave New World - the movie.

4. The Last Showgirl - on Hulu.

***

Currently watching as episodes drop:

Murderbot on Apple + - which I'm really enjoying. Alexander Skarsgaard is perfect casting, and I loved the books, but read them long enough ago, that it appears to me at least that it's following the books fairly closely.

***

Former series

* Buffy the Vampire Slayer - almost done with S2. Just finished Killed By Death. Take-aways from my re-watch? Xander is a problematic character who really doesn't age well, but is at the same time a complex commentary not to mention subversion of a problematic and popular 20th Century trope - the nerdy guy who feels he should be paired with the hot cheerleader. Buffy does an excellent job of showing how toxic that trope truly is from various angles. It really deconstructs the heterosexual male nerdy guy who thinks he deserves sex (aka the incel), and it's the first television series or film to truly do it and do it well. This is a ground-breaking series, it did things no one else did back then, and it got away with it - because it was on a back lot at the WB, a start-up network, and no one was paying that much attention.

Other take-aways? The pairing of Angel,Dru,and Spike was gold. They hit gold with those three anti-heros/villains. The casting, the writing, everything just sparks. I can't take my eyes off them and rewind whenever they are on. And it's not just one thing - it really is the music (Translyvania Concubine is the song Dru asks for in one episode and it is pitch perfect for her), the set design, the makeup, (Marsters hair is bleached white and it was a painful process repeated every eight days and he wears eyeliner and mascara, and a black trench duster, red shirt, and black t-shirt - he looks amazing), the stunts, the writing - one liners and dialogue you want to quote back.

This is truly the rare series that stands the test of time. I couldn't make it through a re-watch of Northern Exposure done during the same time period, and struggled with Ally McBeal. But this one works.

****

Old Movie - The Four Seasons by Alan Alda, staring Alda, Carol Burnett, Jack Weston, Rita Moreno, Sandy Dennis, Bess Armstrong, and Len Cariou. 1981.

It's better than Fey's Netflix series of the same name, loosely adapted from it. For one thing, the characters aren't as wealthy and more relatable. They carpool, often crammed into small cars with each other. And the sight gags in this one are hilarious. Also Will Fort and Tina Fey can't compete with Alan Alda and Carol Burnett in the comedy department. I laugh and feel joy just watching Alda and Burnett laugh, which they do with their whole bodies.

Yes, it is dated in places - it aired in 1981. But for the most part it works and dates fairly well. I'd say it works better in some respects than it's successor.

Xander is a problematic character who really doesn't age well, but is at the same time a complex commentary not to mention subversion of a problematic and popular 20th Century trope - the nerdy guy who feels he should be paired with the hot cheerleader. Buffy does an excellent job of showing how toxic that trope truly is from various angles.

I think that's a good point. I don't know that I think Joss was trying to show how problematic the trope was, but I DO think we're meant to see Xander as more flawed at certain points, and ultimately, he doesn't get with Buffy. He gets with Cordelia, but just like "nice guys" aren't all that nice, he screws that one up.

I think the trio storyline in S6 is a VERY compelling depiction, before deconstructing Nice Guys was a thing.

Completely agree with you about Spike and Dru!

Old Movie - The Four Seasons by Alan Alda, staring Alda, Carol Burnett, Jack Weston, Rita Moreno, Sandy Dennis, Bess Armstrong, and Len Cariou. 1981.

I might try it! I tried the Tina Fey version but couldn't really get into it.

I don't know that I think Joss was trying to show how problematic the trope was, but I DO think we're meant to see Xander as more flawed at certain points, and ultimately, he doesn't get with Buffy. He gets with Cordelia, but just like "nice guys" aren't all that nice, he screws that one up.

As stated below to tinny? I didn't pick up on it myself in the early seasons until now. I think I was too busy looking at other things, and at that time, Xander's behavior had been largely normalized by one too many teen movies and series of the time period. This aired in 1996-2003.

There are a few things worth keeping in mind while analyzing or thinking about the series as a whole, which we often forget?

1. Whedon wasn't the sole writer/collaborator here? Whedon didn't write 90% of the series, nor did he direct most of it. He may have punched up a bunch of scripts? But they couldn't film everything in the scripts and a lot got left out (no time). And he didn't start directing episodes until the later seasons - so most of the episodes were directed by someone who was not writing them. The writer often wasn't on set. Particularly in the earlier seasons. It's not a series like Fargo or True Detective, where there's mainly one director and one writer. Whedon wrote and directed at most a handful of episodes. Marti Noxon wrote most of the episodes with Xander in S2, or wrote for the character. And Whedon didn't write The Pack.

2. Whedon's main goal in writing the series was to subvert the slasher/horror film trope that he grew up watching in the 70s and 80s, also the teen romantic films by John Hughes, which normalized the incel trope. And to examine abuses of power, along with male toxicity.

3. He pushed often to the point of bullying - his writers and himself to write about their worst experiences, worst day, most embarrassing moments, things they regretted, biggest mistakes they made and stick fangs on it. He was writing a teen horror series and wanted to show how difficult it was to live in this world, but it was worth it.

So, upon re-watch of S1 and most of S2 now? I think he may have unconsciously gone there? I don't know. I know I didn't pick up on it until now, mainly because the incel trope had been normalized to a certain extent. But I'm really picking up on it in the rewatch - Xander is obviously depicting the behavior of the seemingly nice guy - nerdy incel, and even apologizes for it at times in an offhand sort of way. And he does get smacked for it - by various characters. The writers even examine why he feels that way in later seasons and how he became that way.

I honestly don't know how much of this was intentional or not? But they definitely did deconstruct his character over the series along with that trope, and it started with S1. The Pack is referenced several times in S2, with Xander, specifically in Phases, where it becomes clear to Buffy that Xander didn't forget any of it and just pretended to.

I think the writers felt the need to show both sides? And not demonize Xander? Which is also interesting. I honestly think that maybe Whedon was grappling with the behavior, as were the other writers. They loved how dark they went with the Pack, and that Brendon could play that well - but at the same time were hesitant to go too far with it. Yet, felt the need to deconstruct the trope - I think that may be why Jonathan, Andrew, Warren, and other characters were introduced - so they could do it without losing the Xander character completely.

Edited 2025-06-01 14:52 (UTC)

It really deconstructs the heterosexual male nerdy guy who thinks he deserves sex (aka the incel), and it's the first television series or film to truly do it and do it well.

Oh, interesting! I hadn't looked at it that way yet. (And I'm not sure Joss Whedon was self-aware enough to consciously do this?) But the show does it really well indeed.

I couldn't make it through a re-watch of Northern Exposure done during the same time period, and struggled with Ally McBeal. But this one works.

Good comparisons, yes! I really loved Northern Exposure at the time, more than Buffy, but you're right.

Murderbot on Apple + - which I'm really enjoying. Alexander Skarsgaard is perfect casting, and I loved the books, but read them long enough ago, that it appears to me at least that it's following the books fairly closely.

I reread the first book last week, and I agree that the show is following it closely. I like it more than I thought I would.

Oh, interesting! I hadn't looked at it that way yet. (And I'm not sure Joss Whedon was self-aware enough to consciously do this?) But the show does it really well indeed

I really didn't see it either until now? Mainly because back then much like everyone else, I'd normalized the behavior and thought little of it? Sad but true.

But, Whedon liked to examine abuses of power and was self-critical and self-deprecating in his writing and required the same from his writing team, often bullying them into it. He got a lot of criticism for not putting Xander and Buffy together, and having the male characters come across as toxic, but he was also intent on writing a subversion of the slasher/horror films/series and teen films that he grew up watching in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Also, he had all the writers/himself included told to write about their worst day ever, their most embarrassing moment, or the thing they did in high school that they regretted the most. And I have a feeling he created the character of Xander as not a tribute to himself but a critique and he may well have been unconsciously per those guidelines punishing the toxic behavior of the incel instead of rewarding it? I never noticed it before now. I was somewhat surprised by it to be honest. I'm not entirely sure if he was aware of doing it, but I do know that when he turned Xander sadistic in The Pack, the first time they commented on the incel, and then again, with Xander in Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered - that yes, they were doing that.

Another bit to keep in mind? Whedon wasn't alone in the enterprise, he may have been the principal show-runner? But he had producing partners that had a say, along with a lot of other writers, etc. He didn't write, direct and produce every episode like Noah Hawley did with Fargo (for the most part).
He didn't direct or write over 90% of them. And the Xander episodes tended to be written by other people. Marti Noxon wrote Xander most of them in S2. I don't think Whedon wrote a lot of Xander's dialogue.

Edited 2025-06-01 14:01 (UTC)

Those are all good points! And the worst day thing is new to me!

He got a lot of criticism for not putting Xander and Buffy together

omg whyyy? Just because he was the only male in the group? Ugh.

And they did have the evil boys (omg they had a name but I forgot) as a Big Bad in the second-to-last season, didn't they? They had incel written all over them, too.

There were a lot of annoying Bander or Xander/Buffy shippers in the Buffy fandom during the original airing 1996-2003. And in the 20th Century, that was the trope? Putting Buffy with Spike or even Angel went heavily against the trope established in the 20th Century. Buffy did a lot of things no one else did. Now, they do it all the time, but twenty-five to thirty years ago? They didn't.

Back in the 20th Century, they paired the heroine with the nice guy. The movie - Buffy the Vampire Slayer paired Buffy with the nice guy, who was not a vampire. The Xander character. It's one of the many reasons why it didn't work.

It wasn't Whedon who changed that up - by the way, that was David Greenwalt, who convinced Whedon to do in a different direction and make the vampires more complicated. It saved the series. Fans give Whedon far too much credit for that series, all you have to do is watch his other things - to realize it was the collaboration of all those writers and producers that made the series. I mean there's a reason the other ones didn't do quite as well.

Yeah, the Little Bad of S6 was the Troika (Warren, Andrew, and Jonathan - who were all basically versions of Xander's character or the writers at their worst), the Big Bad was actually Dark!Willow or how the Scoobie Gang was handling things.

So it is closely following the book? Good to know. I thought it was but wasn't certain. Thanks.

Northern Exposure kind of ended before Buffy aired? It ended in 1995-96, and started in 1990. It didn't last as long - ran into writer and actor issues, happens a lot with television shows. Per Wiki: The lead of Northern Exposure wanted a raise around the fifth season, and the producers and studio refused and decided they could do the show without him. So he got written out in the middle of the fifth season. (It didn't work and the show died, shortly there after, although it had other problems. Very few shows can survive without the lead.) The other problem - was the network/studio took an idea another writer pitched to them, changed the location and pitched it to a different writing team. The original writer got annoyed and sued them, and when the writing team of the series found out that it was a stolen idea or changed idea, they bolted and a new show-runner was hired, and that new show-runner hated everything about the series and kept undercutting it until the network finally gave up and cancelled it. (Television is a really tough and frustrating medium to work in.)

That's why it went off the rails in the latter seasons and got cancelled.

Northern Exposure was the opposite of Buffy in that it was great to start, then...floundered. Buffy took a while to take off - then got better as it went, and the writers/crew/etc did as well. Probably helped by the fact that the lead didn't leave nor did the writers until the series ended.

Edited 2025-06-01 14:17 (UTC)

So it is closely following the book? Good to know. I thought it was but wasn't certain. Thanks.

So far, yes. I have seen the first three eps.

The lead of Northern Exposure wanted a raise around the fifth season

Oh yeah, NX was a mess from start to finish. Afair, he already wanted a raise after the first season, but didn't get it. But his contract was such that he also couldn't quit (yet), so he had to come back anyway. So even after the first season already there must have been major cracks between him and the rest of the cast. And one of the other actors also kept away from the rest. I remember that he didn't participate in the Q&As that were organized for the fans, for example.

I didn't know about the writers/showrunner conflict, it seems to have been an even bigger mess than I thought. O_O For all that, it was really well written, especially the first season.

Television is a really tough and frustrating medium to work in.

Ugh, yes. I'm very frustrated with what went on with Doctor Odyssey this season, too (and I suspect so was Ryan Murphy).

After trying the rewatch, and failing after six episodes of NX (shame I remember loving it back in the day and I wanted to see the episodes Marsters was in), I decided to look it up. I couldn't remember when Grant Goodeve's character left or how. (Satellite Dish fell on him and sometime in the second or third season?).

Yeah, there was a lot of hostility on set. And various actors didn't get along. The actor playing Joel Fleischman wanted out, and asked for a raise early on, and was repeatedly denied. He went on to play in Numbers, and various films. It was not a happy set, from what I've read, although no where near as bad as Ally McBeal or Sleepy Hollow or Moonlighting.

it's gotten weird reviews. The critics seem to love it.

Out of curiosity: What do you mean by "weird reviews"? Do you disagree with the critics who love it?

I've not seen it yet, so don't really know?

Weird may be the wrong word? More nit-picky? Or mixed? I'm admittedly going by the titles of the reviews (not what's in the same since I'm attempting to avoid spoilers). These critics love it overall but.. And it's just a few of them.

Hmm, I'll post the title that appeared to be weird to me:

"The New Netflix Show From the Writer-Director of The Queen’s Gambit Is Gorgeous, Well Acted, and Preposterous"

Link: https://slate.com/culture/2025/05/dept-q-netflix-show-books-matthew-goode.html

I'm never sure what shows these critics love though? The nit-picky critics often love television shows I can't watch.

Thanks for the link! I think I will give the show a chance before I read any of the more spoilery reviews. From skimming the article, it seems the critic's main annoyance was the murder mystery.

It's hard to know with Slate or most television critics? They seem to like things that make me want to leave the room or switch the channel - because they are edgy. I don't know. It's so, subjective.

I stopped reading reviews for the most part. I was just looking to see when it was airing, and up popped the reviews.

I think of Xander as what I call a Julien (after Julien Sorel in The Red and the Black): i.e., a negative self-insert. I think Joss is saying oh god, I was so awful when I was younger, but now I have enough distance to talk about my particular kind of awfulness.

Most likely. I admittedly don't remember what Julien was like in the Red and the Black (I remember reading and loving that book in high school or junior high - but that was also over forty years ago).
But yes, I think you may have nailed it. I had a writing professor warn me once about writing about myself or inserting myself into fiction - you'll either make yourself too good to be true or incredibly awful.

I think Whedon kind of did that with Xander. And the other writers worked to deconstruct it - which I think Whedon loved. He loved to deconstruct things.

Department Q on Netflix - starring Mathew Goode as a down on his luck grumpy Scotland Yard Detective

Quibble -- not Scotland Yard, which is the HQ of the Metropolitan Police (London). He's simply a detective with Police Scotland, in Edinburgh.

Have you read any of the Department Q novels by Jussi Adler-Olsen? This first series (hopefully it will be renewed -- it's so good!) is based on the first novel in the series and from what I can remember of that one (read it eons ago), it's pretty faithful, save for moving everything to Scotland from Copenhagen.

No, I didn't know any of that, nor apparently did some of the AI I was quoting.

Thanks for the novel rec, and for the information on the series. The reviews are kind all over the place (not read them, just the titles - trying to stay clear of spoilers - mystery/thrillers are spoiled by spoilers).

I checked out the first episode of a new detective show called Death Valley that the Guardian said would appeal to fans of Ludwig. I wasn't entirely sold after the first episode, but admittedly was a bit distracted, so maybe that was more a me thing. I will try another episode or two to see if things improve.

I also watched a 3-part documentary on the 1980s Tylenol murders, Cold Case: The Tylenol Murders.

Yesterday I watched the first ep of the new adaptation of the Jussi Adler Olsen Department Q novels, Dept. Q and LOVED it. Can't wait to watch the rest.

Other than that, it was Criminal Minds Evolution, Leverage, Murderbot, baseball and tennis. I'm taking two weeks off in July so that I can watch Wimbledon all day.

Also found out that season 4 of Star Trek Strange New Worlds starts July 17, so really looking forward to that!

They also have The Thursday Murder Club film airing sometime in August - with Helen Mirren, Pierce Bronsan, and Ben Kingsley.

Thanks again on the feedback on Dept Q.

Me too. I can't wait for ST:SNW!

Change of plans. I caught up on my other currently airing shows (which are now over lol), but haven't started Poker Face. I still had a bit of Netflix time left. I went with The Residence and I'm halfway through the season. I love it! I don't think I've seen Uzo Aduba in anything so far, but she is so awesome in this and I love her wardrobe/suit. The whole cast is great. Apparently, the show is not doing as well internationally as it is in the US. Allegedly due to the setting, but it doesn't feel too America-centric at all? I mean, the setting is "state dinner" and that would be a big deal everywhere.

The second season of The Last of Us has ended. The season ends on a huge cliffhanger, but we all know that the show will continue. This season did not feel as consistent in quality as the first one, but definitely had some well-written, well-acted, and well-shot scenes/episodes. I don't want to complain, because it was still great. S1 just set the bar very high.

spoilers

I wouldn't say it was the lack of Joel, no matter how much I missed him. To me, everything regarding Ellie's and Dina's relationship felt a bit off.

Bella is a great actor. So I feel like they should be able to carry the show. The hate they get online though? Absolutely unreal.

The start of the upcoming season (as suggested by the very last scene) will probably be the three days in Seattle from Abby's POV. I'm kinda hoping that will only be one episode, probably without any of the other main characters. I'm not really looking forward to that, but maybe we'll get more Jeffrey Wright.
I hope we won't have to wait for too long since S3 should be a direct continuation of S2 (even partially runs parallel to it).

The Handmaid's Tale is over after six seasons. In a way I still can't believe that it went on for this long when only S1 covered the book. A lot of this final season felt a bit empty, like nothing really happened. Then everything happened at once during the last few episodes...

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I kind want to applaud them for not redeeming Nick and even running with him being just as bad as all the other Commanders as long as he is not doing things for June. The fact that he died on that plane while fulfilling some shitty duty when Lawrence sacrificed himself for Mayday was a bit poetic. They did a cheesy flashback in the finale, but I suppose June is allowed to have conflicting feelings about the father of her child dying.

I'm not too happy about June explicitly saying "I forgive you" to Serena. Yes, she was the bigger person, but Serena proved over and over again that she doesn't deserve it. She was always on the Gilead bullshit, even on the train at the beginning of the season when it nearly cost her her life and son. She was one of the few true believers. I mean, the Commanders obviously weren't. They just liked this system that was oppressing women and benefiting them. For me, she was always the worst character. Serena was one of the builders of Gilead (without getting any credit!) and had a couple of opportunities to break out, but never did. She was also portrayed as a very intelligent woman which in this religious context is another point against her imo.

I'm not sure I love how the show ended. There is so much left open, so many threats that still exist. I really would have liked it if the show ended with June hugging Hannah. I have no idea what will happen in The Testaments, so that's probably why that kind of ending wasn't possible or rather a completely closed ending wasn't possible anyway.

That said, the last 10-15 minutes were a bit strange with June returning to the Waterford house, her place of pure torture. It was a nice touch that they added the opening words (at least that's what I read in a recap^^) from episode 1.

I was very happy to see Emily again, even if it was just for a few scenes. Alexis Bledel was so good on the show.
June burning her awful red robe was also an awesome moment. But it was an odd choice to put her in teal for the scenes at the Waterford house when there are plenty of colors not associated with Gilead.

Apparently, the show is not doing as well internationally as it is in the US. Allegedly due to the setting, but it doesn't feel too America-centric at all? I mean, the setting is "state dinner" and that would be a big deal everywhere.

That's really weird. I had assumed the show would appeal to the Netflix Knives Out audience. :/

Same! I feel like Netflix isn't really trying either. I follow the German account on Instagram, I haven't seen that much about it. They post a lot about other US shows. Maybe Glass Onion also didn't do well here? So they figured a show with the same vibe also wouldn't work?

I think it has to do with it being set in The White House? I admittedly steered away from it a bit because of that - then tried it, and realized it wasn't really political at all? There is some light political satire mainly about congressional hearings, but it's minor. It's more of a satire/parody of detective parlor room mysteries.

HPI! Three out of four eps of season five have now aired, and I adored every single one of them. One ep to go before a longer break until September.

Tout Va Bien (2023) (English title "Everything is Fine"). Um, I know I said I'd watch this over the summer, but then it sucked me in and I watched all eight eps this week. (I knew if I stopped, I wouldn't finish it, because the subject matter is dark.) It's about a family dealing with their child's leukemia. I only watched this because Mehdi Nebbou is in it (and he's cute and dead sexy in it so totally worth all the tears), and I liked 90% of it very much and have many thoughts about it, so I'll write up a review. It's on hulu.

Mann/Frau - I finished this 2014 youtube series of 40 5-minute eps, and by the end very much loved all the main characters. I never noticed that none of them have names, until I watched an interview with producer Christian Ulmen at the end. :D I was especially delighted by the polyamory, and by how quirky and funny (and often indecent) the dialogue was. Playlist here, only in German without subs. (The auto-generated and auto-translated subs leave a lot to be desired.)

Murderbot - I watched episodes 2 and 3 this week, after rereading the first novella. I think they're really close to the book, except that I feel like they've added some sex that wasn't in the book? Which confuses me, because Murderbot explicitly says it doesn't care for sex, so why did they think they had to add that? To annoy Murderbot (and its fans) more? I guess it's a valid trade-off between the existing Murderbot fans (who are going to watch it anyway, lets not kid ourselves) and trying to attract new fans by adding more sex. Anyway, that's a minor complaint. I like it so far.

I agree, I was annoyed by the sex in Murderbot and kind of ignoring it, along with Murderbot. I think it's there because it's streaming, and they feel the need to show sex in an adult series. (eyeroll).
And because they can. But I thought it was unnecessary.

Our Unwritten Seoul was my TV surprise of the week. It's a show about two burnt-out twins--the job-hopping tomboy Mi-ji and the brainy overachiever Mi-rae--swapping their lives with each other. I hadn't planned on watching it because the premise is not exactly up my alley, but I nevertheless decided to check it out for Park Bo-young.

What I like about it:
- The complicated friends-to-lovers romance the show is teasing between Mi-ji and her friend Ho-su (the flashbacks between them are super cute, and the angst in the present becomes more understandable the more you learn about their backstory).

- Ho-su is also one of the few (or maybe the only?) ML with a disability I've seen so far in a K-drama.

- While I generally prefer my comfort K-dramas to be fluffy, this show has introduced some serious subject matter that could become truly interesting if explored with the necessary nuance. I'm really curious about episodes 3 and 4.

I also watched:
- Taskmaster AU/UK
- the new 9 Perfect Strangers episode: I was surprised by Mark Strong's German skills.
- the first two episodes of Industry S1: Not sure I'll stick with it, but it's interesting for sure!
- the first episode of Sirens: A friend spoiled me for this one, and I am no longer interested.

Movies:
- A Simple Favor: I liked the beginning, but the second half was really silly. Will watch the sequel later today.
- The Ugly Stepsister (Den stygge stesøsteren): I liked it well enough but I had hoped for far more body horror.

Had exactly the same reaction to a Simple Favor. It kind of fell flat. But I watched it - because it was leaving, and I wanted to see the sequel, which I forgot about. Thank you for reminding me.

Haha, I'm curious about what you'll think! I've only watched 40 minutes of it and after reading the Wikipedia summary, I am glad I didn't waste more time on it.

It's that bad? Oh dear. Yes, another example of how misleading television critics are - they said it was full of great twists and turns. But I'm kind of leery because I'm admittedly not a fan of either Blake Lively or Anna Kendrick, both annoy me for different reasons.

From what I read on Wikipedia, it sounds like a convoluted plot out of a god-awful soap opera. I liked Blake Lively well enough in the first movie, but in the second one, not even her character was watchable anymore.

Ugh. I'm picky about soap operas. I like daytime soaps, prime time soaps don't take the time to do what soaps do rather well - which is get every one's reactions to something, and delve deep into the characters and their motivations. Prime Time just does the insane plots and melodrama. Basically takes the annoying bits and leaves the good bits out. Pass.

There is a lot coming in June that I'm looking forward too.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 4
Ginny & Georgia Season 3
Ironheart
Resident Alien Season 4

I don't know if I should be excited for the Black Dagger Brotherhood show... I mean I like the books but I don't know if the show will be worth it.

Speak Up Saturday

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Regarding Joss

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Regarding Xander

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Murderbot and Northern Exposure

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