tv_talk | Supernatural Season 9

Feel free to talk about anything not specific to a particular episode here.

I need to catch up. And by catch up, I mean start this season. I'll deal with the giant gaping hole that is half of season 5, all of seasons 6 and 7, and most of season 8 later.

It's hard to keep up with TV.
:)

It is. Though I'm doing better than last season so far. Not losing electricity for a week because of a hurricane helps.

Episode Summary:
FELICIA DAY RETURNS AS CHARLIE/SAM, DEAN AND CHARLIE MEET DOROTHY FROM OZ — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) discover that the table in the Men of Letters house (the one that lit up like a Christmas Tree when the angels fell), has an ancient computer attached to it. They figure if they can get the computer on, they can track the angels. Who better to call for help than the best IT girl there is, Charlie (guest star Felicia Day)? While moving the massive computer, they dislodge a hidden hexbag that unleashes a magical green-webbed wall. Sam and Dean break through it and discover the one and only Dorothy (guest star Tiio Horn) from Oz. She had trapped herself and the wicked witch (guest star Maya Massar) in the web years ago to stop the witch from finding the key that would open the gate that connected their world with Oz. With the wall broken, a massive and magical fight ensues that threatens to destroy the Men of Letters house.
~ <a href = "http://www.cwtv.com/shows/supernatural/episodes/904'>cwtv.com</a>

I'M SO EXCITEDDDDDDDDDDDDD

*flails*

I liked it better than the LARP episode, it was fun to have a somewhat light-hearted episode with all the angst going on.

OZ - another common thread between Stargate and Supernatural. I should make a list

:D yesssssss more light-hearted!! I just love Charlie so that helps and now Charlie/Dorothy!!! So great

you should make a list

WHY AM I ON THE WEST COOOOOOOOOOAST?!!! I want my episode noooooooooooooow! :(

And as excited as I was to see Charlie, that was... not my favorite ep ever. I'm still working through how I feel about a lot of things, but basically I want all the femslash and I hope Dorothy and Charlie are happy in Oz and come back soon.

Also, the facade cracking soooooooooooooooo slowly, the anticipation of Sam finding out about Zeke is KILLING ME.

i would pay a lot of money for the dorothy and charlie oz spin offffffffff

but the LIES MAN. they gotta stop with the liesssssss

I haven't been saying that out loud because I feel like that'll jinx it... but yessssssssssssssssssssssss Oz spinoff pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I don't mind the lies. Partly because Dean's never going to tell Sam outright, and partly because he's a completely shit liar, particularly to Sam - and Sam already has clues about what's going on, I'm just waiting for him to piece it together. The anticipation is killing me - they better milk it for everything it's worth.

I wonder if we would have heard if it was the spin-off pilot. It would certainly be a good idea, but i'm sure i'm not that lucky.

ahahah right? he's an AWFUL Liar

From what I understand, the spinoff was set up in 901? The hunter in the short shorts?

ahhhhhhh :( that's sucky

ITA. :/ I've been actually sort of enthusiastic about digging into this show this year, but this one... yeah not this ep.

Although I would love ALL the Charlie/Dorothy, yessss.

Also: West Coast Represent! We never get to watch it in 'real' time and we are always, always spoilered.

Not my favourite Charlie Ep, but a pretty decent ep regardless. Loved all the dorothy/charlie moments (could def. ship it :D) and CHARLIE in general. I liked the few moments where sam said charlie was smart, and charlie counts herself as family.

Not as happy with all the stupid lies :( but oh well.

Gosh i want an Oz spin off

YOUR ICON THO

i know ;D

DOGGIE DEANLITTLE — While investigating two bizarre murders, Sam and Dean realize there is an eyewitness to both gruesome deaths – a German Sheppard. Anxious to find out if they are dealing with a witch, a skinwalker or other supernatural monster, the guys look up a spell that could let Dean “communicate” with the dog. Unfortunately, the spell comes with side effects that no one saw coming."
cwtv.com

I AM EXCITE

just starting. OK I think that was the BEST 'previously' EVERRRRR. I kind of want to watch it over and over.

Hahaha, you and I apparently have opposite views of "previously"s - I generally dislike them in the later seasons (because they're trying to squeeze too much in) - and this one was like the worst of the worst for me. :|

Do you enjoy all the harkening back to previous eps? Because I do enjoy the clips they include, and could see how that might be appealing (still not my cuppa, but I understand it).

Edited (arg, close brackets) 2013-11-06 07:37 (UTC)

oh hi! I guess I missed the notification of this comment? Sorry for the delay!

Yes, no usually I hate 'previously on' but the bits they showed in this one were some of the more inspired moments of zaniness that makes me keep watching this show. I feel like generally my attitude toward show has changed over time. And in hindsight, after the end of season 5, it's all just a mushy grey blur except for the extremely silly eps. So I guess instead of wanting it to be all that it could be, I just accept it for what it is, and stick around for the extremely childish humor? Except for sometimes the humor is less childish and more just...uh, something else ha.

Haha, no worries!

Oh, yeah, the moments they chose were great, and I love the silly eps too (which is why this one was such a disappointment - just not good enough for their funny stuff and not much of anything else). I just hate how they stuff so much in there - I wish they would make them more streamlined and give the fans of the show a little credit, you know? There's no way to pack 8 seasons into an intro trailer anyway, so jeez. It vexes me every single week. :|

There's no way to pack 8 seasons into an intro trailer anyway HA! Right? I mean, is there anyone at this point who watches the show who isn't familiar with the canon? I'm not sure you even could start watching at 901 and get it.

LOL HIPPIES sigh. Evil PETA? eh. The scent of patchouli and depression? Really Dean?

lol though I am enjoying the way the vegans are echoing Dean's choices of epithets.

this bad guy's crazier than a SACK OF CATS. ughhhh DON'T EAT THE KITTEHS THO

so many stereotypes in this episode

This. Ouch.

:(

YAY Kevin!! What, he's like the librarian of the MoL now?

I wonder though, is this phonetic Inuit?

No see, Dean has ALWAYS had the urge to sniff butts. So it's hard to tell.

also: OMFG that must have been the GREATEST day at work for Jensen. He should have taken notes from Jared though, about how to do puppy eyes.

but why do all the animals come from New York?

poor Jared, all he can do is react to Jensen.

Also, this show is getting ridiculous. And also now I'm starting to CRY OMG SHUT UP DON'T LISTEN TO THE PUPPIES BEGGING TO BE LET OUT OF PUPPY JAILLLLLL. GODDDDD DAMMIT.

Yay they got sprung! If only they all got loving homes for all times now. God, listening to puppies is sad.

ok NOW does Sam figure out he's deus ex machina-ed?

uh oh. this is the part of the show where we get:

tastes like chicken

you are what you eat

sigh

Annnnddd the refrain of Dean not wanting to--but having to--trust Ezekiel, of people being possessed and out of control, continues. Really, Sam? Gonna buy this again? It's been five weeks of weirdness, and now you magically healed from a neck wound. :/

right?? come on. sam is basically a detective!

Right? I mean, he used to practically be a genius. Maybe he doesn't want to know???

And i know he's probably pretty trusting of dean, but he SHOULDN'T BE

I think he's getting a clue but a) he's trusting Dean and b) possibly Zeke is messing around with just enough to make things fuzzy for him.

I think the juxtaposition of the camaraderie they brothers shared this episode with the dark cloud of this secret still looming is setting us up. Like 'oh look how good they get along, look at them working a case, look at how they humor each other and are comfortable, etc.' and the BAM!!
The whole thing is making me squirm because I know it's going to hurt. And I think that's EXACTLY what TPTB are doing.

Yeah i don't really like where its going. BUT HEY MAYBE IT'LL WORK OUT OK. sob sob. :D

I think Dean's comment at the end about sometimes something possesses you and it just takes over (or something, I'm paraphrasing) and his earlier comment about 'having power over other lives because you have none over your own' were both very telling about where Dean's headspace is now.
/random post-episode comment.

Dean is getting very uncomfortable with this, to the point of almost asking 'how long is this going to take?' in that opening scene in the batcave.

Sam knows something is off, but he's getting 8 hours of sleep a night, he feels good, he's in a good space and he trusts Dean. He doesn't *want* anything to be wrong.

*sobs*

yeah it was all very much forshadowing.

Sam is happy! its not fair to take that away

b) possibly Zeke is messing around with just enough to make things fuzzy for him. I was wondering the same thing! Like, maybe Sam *can't* think about it because Zeke put it behind a barrier?

Right. I was kind of thinking along the lines of a mini-mind-wipe but a barrier works, too. Sam principle. ETA... er... I meant SAME principle. ~~funny typo though~~
OTOH, I like this theory but I had a theories this time last year about Sam's year and.... nope! So now I'm thinking that I'm thinking too much...
*runs around in circles LIKE A DOG CHASING ITS TAIL*

Sam just wants to trust Dean.
*sobs*

But Sam does get this distant, spaced-out kind of look when it seems he'd logically be thinking about it.
*peers at tail, considers chasing it*

Sorry, I'm kind of working on my 9.05 piece for

episodic_supernatural and I couldn't resist the dog puns. ;P

Edited 2013-11-08 20:20 (UTC)

:D It was like puns AND Freudian slips, all at the same time!

Yeah I mean I'd love it if it were true and the reason Sam's taking so long to grok all this is because of Zeke, but...I hate to say but I feel like that may be giving the writers too much credit. OTOH I see 'Checkov's guns' everywhere that never fire. I think that's part of the overly productive center of the fannish brain.

Are you doing episodic supernatural? I wanted to, but I knew with all the challenges and whatnot, I'd fail out the gate. But I'm excited to see what you made!

I am doing episodic supernatural! I don't know how long I'll be able to keep up, but 2 weeks should give me time to at least SEE the episode.

Right now I'm making a video to 9.05, starring Colonel, the dog. WHY!?!?!
*headdesk*

THIS EPISODE WAS SO AWKWARD

whyyyyyyyy.

the little bit of funny didn't outweigh the WHY. lol

WHY show? Whyyyy

:( not the best episode ever.

Nope. :/ Gotta say, more disappointed than I thought I'd be. I mean, last week's crash and burn on delivery, and how it snuffed out a potentially awesome plot line, didn't affect me as much because I'd expected it from that writer. This one I had higher hopes for. The jokes just weren't even that funny. It felt a little mean, and a little too excited about poop.

Yeah i loved last week, so i'm pretty disappointed in the drop, i don't know why a bunch of people thought this episode was a good idea!!!

It was mean when it came to Vegans, Animal Rights, and even some dog-stereotypes?

I'm not sure if this or last seasons "dog" episode was worse

This one. This one had me actively cringing throughout. That one only had me cringing about 3/4 of the time.

Ugh, this was such a huge letdown. I blame it on the writers and maybe some on the director. This was not a well-executed episode by any means.

right? i had such high hopes after all the fun moments in the "before" parts. i wanted a super funny episode!!

:( hopefully next week will be better.

Yeah, I hope so. I am sort of fearing it though, considering the last we saw of Cas.

Also, is it just me or are all the "haha, this is why this character isn't onscreen!" moments really, really awkward? It's so obvious, what they're doing, it freaks me out.

aww poor cas

yeah i would like to actually SEE Kevin. We used to often see bobby on the other side of the line, even if he wasn't actually IN the episode. I would just like kevin, cas (and charlie) all in one episode!

Poor Kevin with his hangover. I like that they imply Kevin is around even if they can't have him in the episode (I know with other shows there's a "thing" about number of episodes, etc.)

I guess I'm in the minority, because I enjoyed the episode and laughed a quite a few moments.
I thought the stereotypes were OTT intentional and Dean's always been opinionated about such things. I'm not saying I personally agree, only that I'm on board with Dean behaving that way as it's kind of how I'd expect him to behave.
*shrugs*

aww sorry to be all negative.
I do think its in character for dean, you're right about that

LOL -- it's ok. I'm used to the 'did I watch the same show?' feeling in Supernatural. :)

don't worry i know how you feel!

I think this is the way things are with shows we're invested in! And there's so many sides to Supernatural, it's easy to find that there's a divergence between the things you like and the things other fans do.

I have to agree Dean felt in character, but it's a part of his character I don't really like - so while I don't mind him acting that way, the show using it for laughs is the thing I don't really like. (Though in the end, I think basically I just agree with Jared: I was hoping for better animal voices.)

so while I don't mind him acting that way, the show using it for laughs is the thing I don't really like AH, yes, nice distinction. This.

lol Did Jared tweet about the animal voices? They were weird. Leslie Graham though! Or whatever that actor's real name is from Will and Grace and American Horror Story. I don't understand why they all sounded like they drove taxis in Manhattan.

Yeah, Jared tweeted that he was disappointed about the animal voices - and that the dog wasn't very well trained.

The accents were weird, definitely (and there were a lot of southern ones, which was odd, too)... just... why. Whyyyyyyyyyy. I'm trying to figure out where I place the blame for this ep. I think Jensen's acting of the silly bits was as good as it ever has been, so that leaves me with writing (I think that's A LOT of it for this ep, the jokes didn't hit home for me, the logic behind the villain was pretty fail, and the Sam/Zeke thing was over-the-top. Unless the showrunners have absolutely decided that Zeke is messing with Sam's perceptions of things all the time (instead of only when absolutely necessary), then Sam should have snapped. He had a fatal neck wound - you could see he knew that - and then he doesn't have a scratchon him?) and directing/editing - not of the actors but the overview of the whole ep. It just didn't come together for me.

Yes! Jensen is pretty much always going to act well I think, even if he doesn't understand the plot. I feel like he's suffering from Michael Rosenbaum syndrome (c season 6 and 7 of Smallville, Rosie was so checked out, and had no idea what the logic was anymore, but just read the words and pinched Tom's ass and collected his paycheck) at this point. ((As my friend tebtosca says: they have to keep themselves in diapers and gummi bears somehow.)) And he did a good job, I thought, but yes: Dean's been at times a bit schizophrenic in his characterization over the years--which I get, I mean, how many writers have there been?--but usually his grumpiness is more of the middle aged lady variety than downright mean. And I felt like some of the jokes were weak because they were mean.

And yeah, this villain just slid right off my mind, too.

then Sam should have snapped. He had a fatal neck wound Yep. Exactly!

I think it came down to editing choices. The last two eps have suffered the same thing: too much dead air in scenes that wouldn't have been as noticeably clunky if they'd moved faster. Especially when the animals talked, in this case, it was SO evident that Jensen and Jared were just standing there, waiting and pretending to hear things. It was awkward enough to pull me out of the narrative more than once. Why not just tighten it up a bit? It's hardly 30 Rock around here, where the jokes are so fast, you miss one because you're still laughing at the previous one. There's plenty of room for tightening things up.

It could be, I've heard of a thing, where they bring in newb crew on old shows to cut their teeth. Maybe there are new editors and first time directors?

As I was clipping this episode last night for vidding, I actually appreciate the lack of "talky face". Therefore, I can see where you're coming from about dead air.

Adding it to THINGS I DIDN'T NOTICE, huh.

And there's so many sides to Supernatural, it's easy to find that there's a divergence between the things you like and the things other fans do.
Yes, I find this is most definitely the case.

The animal voices didn't pull me out of the story too much, although I did notice they were off. I'm surprised there weren't more western drawls since they were supposedly in Oklahoma? Why Colonel sounded like he was from the Bronx did puzzle me a bit and seemed like lazy voice casting or something.
Still, I guess people come from all over so maybe dogs do, too. Maybe they were on an epic Homeward Bound journey and got nabbed by animal control. I kinda want fic now where the eldery pedigree lady with cataracts and the yappy teenager with the fence fixation are really looking for the same family.
/random tangent

Oh wow, this is uncomfortably classist. I'm like, squirming right now. 15 minutes in, and Dean's making fun of Castiel's job. Ouch. This is like the third ep in a row where Dean's humor has gotten mean, I feel like.

Dude, Dean, you threw him out with nothing and you're making fun? And also, I mean, I don't know, call me over-sensitive or whatever, but I just feel like the entire jest is in poor taste. Plenty of folks would kill to have a job at the gas and sip. I feel like the writers are showing a little bit of their entitlement here.

On the other hand: I'm seriously kind of actually literally wanting to ship Kevin/Sam rn

Will say, kind of enjoying the Dean-giving-Cas-dating-tips thing. Total mentor kink. And I love that as soon as he figures out the connection, Dean's first thought is for Castiel's safety.

Also, lolwtf Castiel singing lullabies. Adorbs/ridiculous. and OH look: parallels! We get to hear about Castiel's feelings. Aw. I'm really enjoying Castiel being human, because we get to have more of him without worrying about him magically fixing everything.

YAY MY GIRLFRIEND IS BACK and she is pwning hell. OF COURSE. Can Sam and Kevin hear her I wonder? And what did Crowley hope to achieve with that call? Oh who cares, they needed to find a way to make him work with TFW and this works.

and oh surprise Castiel's pain is loud. Humanity is sad-making, but beautiful, too! Aw, Dean helps Cas want to live. (I mean look, I'm no Destiel shipper, but Show makes it kind of hard not to see it at this point.)

Question: Where do the angels go when they get skewered? Do they recycle back to heaven? A holding pattern?

Question 2: WHAT IS CROWLEY DOING? Is he shooting up Kevin's blood? Is it because he secretly wants to become human??

Hm, I have a feeling that Castiel isn't going to sit this one out, no matter how withholding Dean is with information. Speaking of: gosh, Dean is just lying left and right around here. Pretty soon he's going to slip up.

Overall, this ep has a more even tone than the last couple; much MUCH tighter editing, and the mini-arc was relatively logical, while still throwing light on the season-long arc. Which is honestly all I ask of SPN in its advanced age.

Agreed about the overall ep. Better. Not great, but much better than the last two, and much more logical, which helps. I feel like they're missing the heart of the show a little bit - which is Dean, ironically. By cutting him off from Sam and Cas they're making everything feel empty. I hope this is on purpose and will pay off when all the lies come to light, but part of me thinks it's just shitty writing and they won't take advantage of it. :(

I think when angels get skewered they cease to exist. That's always been my impression before. I want to know where they go when you use that symbol on them. :D

Yeah, I sort of boggled when Crowley did that too - I know they kept referencing his breakdown in the previews, but I wasn't buying it. I don't know that I'm buying it now, either (I prefer my Crowley clever), but it will be interesting to see where this goes.

I love Cas in this ep a ridiculous amount. I didn't really get the point of the whole Abbadon thing, but I don't caaaaaaaaare because ABBADON. :D :D :D :D

ABADDON! Yes, we didn't really need to see her in this ep, aside from being reminded that she exists, but it made me happy. :)

I don't know that I'm buying it now, either (I prefer my Crowley clever), but it will be interesting to see where this goes Right? Like, I'm hoping at best that he thinks he's putting one over on them somehow with that move, but will secretly get hoisted on his own petard. Cross our fingers.

I want to know where they go when you use that symbol on them. YES! That too. Because I think the one thing we can say definitively in this canon is that no one doesn't go anywhere, you know? You always go somewhere.

I feel like they're missing the heart of the show a little bit - which is Dean, ironically. By cutting him off from Sam and Cas they're making everything feel empty. Good point. Yeah, since so much of what keeps the show hanging together is the emotional threads spinning out from Dean, seeing him shut down and lie is totally what's making it feel cold. Which feels like probably something they've done in previous seasons but I have amnesia about everything that happened after ~Swan Song.

Ha, Sam did kind of have chemistry with Crowley here. It's interesting to remember occasionally how much Jared is overshadowed sometimes. Not to mention how little he has to work with, continuity-wise, with Sam. Sam is always someone else or affected somehow; he's never just himself. I feel like I underappreciate Jared sometimes.

Apparently there was a line in the script for Dean that said "Working a 9-to-5, congrats, I could never do that. Not for long, anyway." I wish they'd left it in. Dean seemed rather dickish this ep. And more lies, arggggggggggg.

I can totally understand Sam/Kevin, it just creeps me out because Sam's practically old enough to be his dad. I'm shipping the Crowley/Sam a little after this ep. I think Crowley has a crush on him. :)

Yeah, you know, I actually appreciate Cas's standing up for what he's doing. There IS dignity in doing that job - and I think he stands in for what the showrunners really think, tbh. I'm not sure why they're making Dean the asshole these last few eps, but there has been a voice of reason surrounding him (usually).

Maybe I can retcon Dean's behavior as a response to his own unhappiness and guilt. This was one thing that rang, if not false, then at least confusing: was Dean lying to Cas in a misguided sense of trying to protect him? Because I'm conflicted about that. on the one hand: love the mentoring vibe they have, but otoh, just because he's human doesn't mean Cas is fragile or useless. hm...

I know I'm totally reading into things, but I loved how Misha portrayed Cas' responses to being human in this ep, and how sincere he was about his responsibilities. I feel like Misha is probably not someone to ever take stuff for granted.

(Thank you for starting the thread. I'm on the road and forgot to do it before I left yesterday) I'll be back once I've seen the episode :)

oh good! I was hoping you wouldn't mind. I sat down to watch and knew that if I didn't 'liveblog' it I'd forget. :)

Safe travels!

ARGH DEAN YOU ARE A DICK.

It was nice to see Sam in Research mode, he seems happiest there & I enjoyed seeing kevin again.

I feel sorry for Cas, Dean just sent him away with no life skills at all, and it seems like he was doing the best he could. I hope he really learns how to be a human and Dean's apology at the end wasn't really enough for me, but that's ok.

Liked the episode though overall! It was fun to see some more Abaddonnnnnnnn and Crowley was more likeable this ep - can't wait to see what's going on there. and Of course, dean/cas <3

I really enjoyed the Dean/Cas here, because mentor kink, but also it felt less forced than previous encounters. And yeah: I'm just waiting for all of Dean's dickishness to fall on his head in a massive heap of recrimination. /o\

ahahah i hope so. dean is making terrible choices at the moment (although he often does) so we'll see how this goes. maybe it'll work out!

I think the episode was about Cas learning (re-learning?) how to be a good angel - something all the angels seem to have lost along the way. Maybe not just this episode but his arc this season, TBH.

What did Crowley need/want Kevin's blood for? Is he addicted to human blood after the almost-cure he had? Or does he have something more nefarious up his sleeve?

Overall the episode wasn't as entertaining to me as the last couple had been, it lacked light-hearted moments. I think Dean is definitely feeling the weight of all the lies. :( I did like the Sam and Kevin interaction and really like seeing Kevin around the batcave.

I enjoyed this one far more than the dog ep or the prior one. I don't find casual sex funny. But hey, that's me.

Confused and sad Cas is adorable. I couldn't believe she had him BABYSITTING! Poor guy!

Not sure what's going on with Crowley. (But I hope they give him more to do soon. Having Mark Sheppard just chained in a chair every week is a waste of a brilliant actor. He's probably bored to tears too.)

I'm really at a loss as to where this season is going. Feels like it's been a slow start thus far. I guess we'll just have to see.

haha, Poor Cas and the babysitting. That scene was adorable.

And ITA: we need more Sheppard!

Episode Summary:
Dean gets a call from an old friend named Sonny asking for help with a ghost. Sonny runs a home for delinquent boys, and Dean was sent there for stealing food when he was younger. Sam is stunned he never knew this about his brother and asks for more information, but Dean dodges his questions. Another murder occurs while Sam and Dean are at the house, so they scramble to find the culprit before anyone else dies. Meanwhile, Dean looks up an old girlfriend and recalls his time at the house.

Not sure if spoiler warnings are needed on posts, but:

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Despite the Backstory From Out of NOWHERE, I enjoyed this ep very much! In list form, since it's after midnight and I am BEAT:

- A good old fashioned Saving People, Hunting Things episode! It felt so old school!

- Teen Dean was played pretty well. Not as great as some of the kids they've had playing their younger versions in previous years, but good enough.

- Time with the boys getting along, working a straightforward case and not dealing with all the secrets and all of that.

- Dean in Daddy Mode! Awww!

- Timmy finding his inner super hero. AWWWWW!

There's one negative bit and it's something that has bothered me for SEASONS now.

- The portrayal of John Winchester as a complete jerk, borderline abusive (or all the way abusive) who was so hard hearted that he wouldn't let Dean stay one more freaking day to attend a dance. If we look back to early seasons, he just wasn't like that. Yes, he left the boys alone. A lot. But it wasn't like he was out having fun or simply being obsessive about hunting. He was hunting with a purpose. And there was no doubt that he loved his sons more than anything!

It was offset a bit by the scene of Dean looking at Sam and really that's why he left, but still. I loved John Winchester. I hate the way they've rewritten it all to make him look like nothing more than an abusive, neglectful father who didn't care about his kids and only ordered them around to do his bidding. That's not the man we knew.

Anyway, I enjoyed this one. It's been rare lately that I've wanted to immediately rewatch an ep, but I'd love to see this one again.

Another day, when I'm actually awake...

- The portrayal of John Winchester as a complete jerk, borderline abusive (or all the way abusive) who was so hard hearted that he wouldn't let Dean stay one more freaking day to attend a dance. If we look back to early seasons, he just wasn't like that. Yes, he left the boys alone. A lot. But it wasn't like he was out having fun or simply being obsessive about hunting. He was hunting with a purpose. And there was no doubt that he loved his sons more than anything! YEP. THIS BASICALLY SIGH

I'm glad I'm not alone!

They seem to have struggled to find a "fit" for a young Dean. Young Sam (Colin something) was such a fantastic find that I think everything else has trouble measuring up. Poor Dean.

The episode did feel very 'old school'. I particularly loved the creepy bits like in the hay loft and the drawings Timmy made.

colls, thank you for always having an awesome summary and pic! That is super helpful.

THIS EP. I am still so torn I can't even say anything. Because what I want to say is not all that generous to the writers. This sort of wreckless retconning goes beyond merely snarkworthy laziness into dangerous territory, where they are remapping vital character traits. I can't really say more without swearing.

Suffice it to say: I'll be taking the elements from this ep that I enjoyed and promptly forgetting everything else.

:D -except for days I forget - LOL!

Can we start off with basking in the knowledge that Maybourne was killed on Supernatural. (the actor portrayed Harry Maybourne, a Stargate SG-1 frenemy)
MAYBOURNE
I laughed so hard.

I really liked this episode. Dean's 'secret-teenage-life', the history of lying to Sam, Sam's discovery of Dean's 'secret-teenage-life' - all felt familiar like there wasn't really new ground being broken, but it expanded on a story we already sort of knew. It gave me the sort of stuff I really liked from the early seasons.

NGL, it kind of felt like casefic. Which isn't a bad thing, TBH.

IT FELT LIKE AN OLD FRIEND STOPPED BY FOR A DRINK. Good stuff. :D

OH OH MAYBOURNE!! Yes, I totally forgot in the ensuing feelings, but LOLZ Maybourne finally bought it!! I totally thought the same thing. :D

I did enjoy the old school casefic feel.

Sheriff Mills calls Sam and Dean for help investigating multiple murders in her small town. Discovering all four victims belonged to the same church chastity group, Sam and Dean decide to infiltrate by joining the group themselves. When Dean disappears, Sam and Sheriff Mills realize whatever they are hunting has taken Dean too and team up to rescue him.

(posting a couple days early because I'm visiting family for the holiday week. I might be online. I might not. ENJOY!)

OK. I mean, I'm not looking for a whole lot out of this show. It's not Mad Men; it's not even Downton Abbey, but still. I can't be sure if I'm just cranky, or if this show really is getting worse.

And specifically, I mean, is this show getting worse at Dean's characterization? Because I feel like the last three eps in a row (at least) have been straight up OOC for him. And I'm not talking about the thing with Ezekiel and the lying. That's in character, imo, if misguided.

I'm talking about the littler things. The details. In this case, I mean Dean's sneering derision for virgins, Christians, porn stars and women in general.

And here is where it's hard to say if I'm over-sensitive (doubtless what the writers would think) or I'm really seeing some seriously offensive objectification.

The scene where Dean's in Susie's house, and comes across the porn DVDs (which I am unclear on WHY she'd just have those lying around, but whatevs) made me seriously consider autotrepannation. Its set up is obvious and icky enough, with the whole "hoodie and sneakers = unsexy, intentionally offputting, body not for consumption" and then wham: unzip that hoodie and the bow-chicka-wow-wow music starts. Suddenly she's sexually available.

The minute Dean figures out that she's a former porn star, all bets are off. She's nothing but a thing he's about to conquer. He barely had to suffer through one minute of doubt about his irresistible charms.

Nevermind the fact that it's evident that Susie has gone through an insane amount of trouble to conceal her identity. Nevermind her choices, and the fact that, until Dean, at least, she'd taken chastity very seriously. She'd felt called to God. All of that flies out the window the minute Dean says, "hey, I know you."

And then it's like: oops, tee hee, you caught me. I really am a porn star, masquerading this whole time as a virtuous girl. But see, since I can only be one or the other, and you've discovered my ~true self, then therefore I must jump your bones, because I am a promiscuous slut on the inside! Or something. Like she'd just been waiting for the opportunity to renounce her vows. That she took voluntarily.

And I mean look: I'm definitely no prude; I'm also definitely no Christian, but if people want to believe in Jesus and not have sex, then that's their prerogative. And this ep is like, the third in a row, I think, where Dean (and by extension, the viewer) is clearly standing in moral judgment of these misguided yahoos. First it was the animal rights activists, then it was people who work minimum wage at convenience stores, and now it's porn stars who've been born again.

And the most insidious part of this is that in each instance, Dean's derision is borne out as the correct response. He's proven 'right' at every turn. But he's basically walking around being an enormous douche.

WHY ARE THEY MAKING ME HATE DEAN? I don't want to hate Dean. In the past, when they've made him douchey, there's been some 'redeeming' act he's performed, that sort of set the cosmic scales back into balance. Like, in the past, sure he'd been flawed and imperfect, but he still contributed to the world. Lately, I feel like he's just racking up karmic debt for being an asshole.

Edited 2013-11-27 21:47 (UTC)

I somehow missed this post.

Thank you so much for saying all of this! I thought I was the only one who cringed through this entire episode and felt like I needed a shower afterward. It was clearly a case of the writers using the plot to get their own views out there, instead of serving the characters and the story.

As you said, some things didn't make sense. For one thing, I realize this is Hollywood and apparently people there have never darkened the doors of a genuine, Christian church. But good grief, is the idea of being a virgin until marriage (whether from the start or "secondary virginity") really something so bizarre and foreign and laughable to them? Just because someone chooses to be abstinent doesn't make them a freak. It doesn't mean they are socially awkward. It doesn't mean you've got a neon sign on you blinking out, "YES, I AM A WEIRDO BECAUSE I'M NOT HAVING SEX!" It's a personal decision that people make and unless you know them or ask them, you'd never even know! I've known many people who actually do take the Bible seriously and strive to live by it, but they didn't act or talk like these people did!

And the situation with Dean and the former porn star was just ridiculously over the top. As you pointed out, she went through all this trouble to get away from her past and make a new life for herself. So why would she:

1) Be "counseling" men? I am not familiar with groups specific to this type of issue, but I do know that women counseling men and men counseling women would simply NEVER BE ALLOWED, because of the obvious temptations! I cannot imagine a church group where this would happen.

2) Keep one of her old videos so easily accessible?

3) Give in so incredibly easily?! I know Dean's hot and all, but come on! Up to that point, it seemed like she was serious about changing her life. It wasn't played like she had only been pretending at the church group and was really still a porn star at heart. I just...

Anyway, I'm glad to not be alone. I adore this show but this ep was unbearable. And even with some of the questionable things they've done in the past, I don't think I've ever said that before. Not to this extent.

Edited 2013-12-03 23:41 (UTC)

I liked Jody's description of church and what it meant to her - it helped balance things.

I always loved Jody and I thought she was DEAD! I was freaked out to see her again! I need to rewatch that other ep with her and Crowley. I clearly missed something. But in a good way, for once!

Yeah, I mean, basically this ep felt like it hurt my feelings. But what are you gonna do, you know?

I did think Suzie capitulated rather quickly once Dean called her on being a former porn star, but it seemed she was struggling with the whole chastity thing anyway to me. Or maybe it's just because we saw it coming a mile away.

I loved seeing Jody again, and really enjoyed her scenes with Sam. She even got to slay the monster! Awesome

psst, hey colls, I was wondering...something you said maybe, or I don't know, I just got a feeling, but I went back and re-read the threads, because I was wondering if you'd abandoned captaining this show because you were bummed about feeling isolated in your feelings about the eps?

And I noticed that this is where it drops off (908). I'm sorry if I contributed to your feeling like your thoughts were not welcome. That's certainly not my intention.

Looking it over, I can see how my critiques could seem a bit rough on show. I think it comes from a sense of ownership over the canon; I definitely don't critique any other show this much. Perhaps it's part of the pleasure for me.

But, none of that excuses your feeling excluded, if that's the cause. I apologize. I know I for sure can get a little rowdy in my reactions, but I definitely care more about your enjoyment of this homebase more than I do about critiquing the show.

I guess what I'm saying is: You don't know me as well as you know the canon, and same goes for me, and in these tentative spaces, it can be tempting to err on the side of 'politeness' and step back from discussions, if they seem like they're getting heated, you know? Like being at a cocktail party, and suddenly all the people sitting next to start hooting and hollering, and so you casually get up and go into a different room?

If that's the feeling we gave you, I wanted to assuage you that we--well, I can only speak for myself--would never step on your toes in our rowdiness. Not in this homebase, and nobody better do it to you in any homebase for that matter. If they do, tell me! I want everyone to feel welcome, basically, and if my own behavior is contributing to someone feeling uncomfortable, then I have no problem being called on it.

And also it's cool if I'm totally imagining this and you are just busy or what have you :)

I un-volunteered myself absolutely because I'm not current with the episodes (I think I'm 2 behind at this point). I really should've bowed out when Tash first volunteered me - LOL - but SPN !!!!! ♥

I think people just come at the show from different points or are fans of different aspects. It makes interacting with fandom a richer experience but I didn't want my lack of engagement along with my lack of staying current impact discussions here so thought it best I un-captain and merely participate.

Thanks for checking though! I think you're probably touching more on why I don't stay currents with the show in the first place rather than anything specific to this community. :)

As for timing, I thought the mid season hiatus made sense as there was discussion at some point of making fresh posts anyway.

Yes, I think I fumbled the midseason refresh of posts, as I was just coming on as a co-mod and was trying to do too many things at once. :/

Ok, bb, I'm glad it's all good :) I like discussing SPN with you a lot.

Episode Summary:
AN ANGEL WAR BEGINS — After a massive angel slaughter occurs, Sam and Dean arrive at the scene to investigate and are surprised to run into Castiel. While investigating, Castiel is captured and tortured. Meanwhile, Dean questions Ezekiel’s demands and wonders if it might be time to tell Sam the truth.

Edited 2013-12-03 13:26 (UTC)

I really enjoyed this episode!!! I think it was slightly more action packed than this season has been and the ANGEL CIVIL WAR IS SO INTERESTINGGGGGGGGGGG I WANT MOREEEEEEEEE.

obviously i'm not too happy about the end but i hope its turned around? MAYBE? lol

~~plus i got date night with dean and cas~~

also jared padalecki is nailing the acting atm

Edited 2013-12-05 01:13 (UTC)

There were quite a lot of interesting twists. I loved the born-again bikers - LOL!

I wanna go sit in a corner and cry about Kevin though.
*sniffs*

I KNOW

but he's not dead yet its only been like 3 minutes. CAS CAN RESSURECT HIM.
sob sob sob.

But yeah, even with that i still enjoyed this ep it really picked up the pace, can't wait for it to come back.

(although poor Sam, a meatsuit again)

Jared is really knocking the acting out of the park too, imo.

Yes, I can totally hear Agent Paul 'Helo' Agathon Ballard in his voice, it's a bit unnerving.

If only Cas would.

i want helo backkkkkk
it was easier to like him then.
now he's just a shit.

especially when he's all up in Sam's business LIKE HE OWNS THE PLACE
I'm all like FRAK THIS Helo would never do that.

:/

ahaha he would NEVER

So is it just me, or was anyone saying "WHAT ABOUT THAT SIGIL YOU JUST LEARNED, DEAN?" for the whole episode? I mean, who am I to complain about a little Sammy-whump, I know, but... that seemed like extraordinarily bad falling down on the logic, there.

Yeah, right? Was there something special about the sigil, that it couldn't be used again? damn my goldfish brain and the laziness that it impeding me going back and rewatching 9.09.

Well, aside from that, it was nice to see Abaddon again, AND I really enjoyed the idea of Crowley as a politician. That's genius. And she's the 'brute!' this disproportionately tickles me. Now if she could just become a major threat.

I feel like this season, the stakes are so low, and we've seen every single one of these moves before, that nothing has any tension in it for me. Sam lets Dean walk away? SHOCK.

I DID like it that Sam gets justifiably pissed at Dean overstepping his consent. Finally!

oh, btw, I keep meaning to ask you: I'd never heard the term 'voyeuristic sadism' before you mentioned it, but I feel like that's a thing, and it's a thing that I think I might also have. But I'm curious to hear more about your take on the concept. If you ever have time, I'd love to chat about it.

No, not that I remember. Gadreel had just basically fucked with the sigil so it wouldn't work. That's just... you know, it hadn't even been a full DAY. Dean would NOT have forgotten. SO. FAIL. Why do they pull that shit?

*gets self under control*

Yes, Abbadon and Crowley were both awesome, but I don't like how weak a position they've put her in. I mean, the population they're fighting over are DEMONS. Don't tell me at least half of them aren't more interested in fucking with people and violence and kicking ass as making deals... and what, exactly, do demons *get* out of making deals, anyway?

So apparently I missed all the Dean/Cas (should've caught it over at

episodic_supernatural but I am just not a Dean/Cas shipper, apparently (even though I do like them). Mostly my brain went: HOSHIT, ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE MISHA WORK WITH JARED?!?!?!?!!! Because yeah. I would love to be a fly on that set.

I liked Sam's anger, and his insistence that he was ready to die - and that he wouldn't excuse Dean for taking that decision away from him. I do want more of that, I hope there's going to be a big cathartic fight and then hug-fest.

I could talk all day about voyeuristic sadism! I discovered it fairly early in my life, though I didn't put a name to it until recently, maybe 3-4 years ago? I don't like watching everyone get beat up (Sam less than Dean, though I do enjoy Sam as the damsel in distress), but I do enjoy a good beating, that's for sure. Cas beating Dean up is very high on my list of favorite things. :)

Yeah, there was a lot of Dean/Cas, but then I feel like there always is whenever Collins is on screen. BUT ita: THINK OF THE GAG REEL for the ep that Padalecki and Collins work together! And without Ackles' constant withholding of approval.

Cas beating Dean up is very high on my list of favorite things. :) ahah, YES SEE this is definitely a thing. I'm glad I'm not alone. Is it like, an official term? Like something in the...I don't know, bdsm spectrum? I'd never heard it, but it really describes something. And tbh, something that I think is much more culturally pervasive than anyone admits to.

Yeah, I just - I know they're there? Like, when I rewatch and/or someone points them out, I see it. I just don't tend that way automatically, I guess. *shrugs* I don't really ship any of them especially so I think I just bask in all of them being awesome with each other (as in, being angsty and shitty to each other, mostly).

Well, I discovered the idea when I was talking to a kinky friend of mine. I was concerned about it, actually - seeing Cas beat up Dean isn't the worst sort of thing (and you're right, that stuff is SUPER popular in fandom), and she was talking me through accepting it as part of my nature and that it didn't make me a bad person. And she mentioned sadistic tendencies, which I balked at, because I really couldn't hurt a flea myself, physically, and that's when she added the voyeurism to it, and that's when it all sort of aligned itself in my brain, which made things a lot easier to accept.

*watches GIF endlessly*

I'm afraid to watch this ep. Are they going to torture us some more? (I didn't even know Show was back!)

I WANT MY ICONS!

yay show is back!! Don't be afraid bb, it's only painful in little doses ;)

HELO! I mean Ezekiel! I mean TAHMOH!

Aw, our boys are broken up yet again?

Helo!!! I was so glad to see him again :D

the best and worst thing about this episode was the scene at the end where Sam admitted to being pissed, but Dean wasn't listening to the rest of it
:/ -- oh boys

;slkjf;salkdjf;salkjfs;ldkfj CAS AND SAM. DEAN AND CROWLEY. CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN. This is the first episode this season where I have forgiven everything and just been :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!

I fucking love Robbie Thompson.

omg srs? I was gonna wait and watch this tomorrow, but if this ep makes you asdfghjkl; then I'm so there.

It so did. I'm getting the ep right now so I can watch again tonight. And it's the first time all season that I've felt connected to the characters, so I would forgive them anything. I want to see the behind the scenes of Jared and Misha and just how bad they were fucking around.

I tend to be in the minority here about my opinions of SPN, but wanted to add my 2 cents in about this episode anyway.

I really liked it. I like the Cain and Abel parallels - it feels like they're trying to go back to season 4 with some of the same themes playing out only Dean seems to be cozy with the demons this time around. It could be interesting.

At first I thought Dean was too easily distracted from his hunt for Gadreel. It was kind of abrupt considering where the last episode ended, but I do think Dean is spiraling down to a well of self-destruction that we've seen before, minus the alcohol. So in that respect, it kind of makes sense. Facing Gadreel is facing his more recent mistakes, tracking down and killing Abaddon isn't nearly as personal for him at the moment. I like the instant understanding Dean had when Cain described why he killed his brother. Dean totally got it. Dean's on board. That's not going to play out well for anyone, btw.

Back at the bunker:
For months now I've been saying that I'd like more Sam and Cas scenes. But they were so awkward.
And I'll never understand why the show continues to harp on Sam's past mistakes, but the timing (recovering from violation/betrayal) and source (Castiel) of it in this episode felt insensitive. Cas was supposedly making a "human connection" with Sam and the way he chose to do so, above the ridiculousness of the PBJ sandwich, made their entire interaction feel awkward. :/

A showdown of Abaddon and Crowley seems to be coming, but one between Castiel and Gadreel would be more interesting (Metatron kind of bores me, he feels more like an instigator than an interesting antagonist). How different are Castiel and Gadreel? How different are Abaddon and Crowley? And how are the angels and demons going to continue to play the Winchesters, stringing them along so they get caught in the midst of it all?

Anway, I'm looking forward to the rest of the season even more now!

I don't think you're in the minority at all - I often feel that about myself, which just means that we've got at least two groups of people with differing approaches to the show, is all.

I totally agree about Dean's downward spiral, and I'm really excited to see Dean's storyline for the rest of this season. I've felt very disconnected to Dean so far, and this makes me feel much better about his arc (and I'm so pleased to see them giving Jensen more to do than look upset about lying to Sam!).

I really liked how awkward Sam and Cas were - that's one of my favorite things because they both can be awkward and they were awkward together! Also, knowing how bad Jared is behind the scenes and how susceptible Misha is, I had that second layer of "tee hee!" that makes me excited for the gag reel and outtakes.

I also agree about Metatron - super boring! I just feel like they messed up with that character and now don't know what the hell to do with him. Gadreel is way more interesting. I'm guessing Cas will get his revenge on Metatron because Metatron fucked him over, meanwhile Sam will get revenge on Gadreel, because Gadreel fucked him over. But maybe they'll have a heart to heart first because they're both basically just fuckups. :)

The fight for hell is less interesting to me because they keep chipping away at Abbadon's power. She was the first truly scary big bad they'd had in a while, but they've started to make her look weak, which sucks. I love Crowley and all, but I would like the battle between him and Abbadon to be epic - not a walk in the park because they've dumbed Abbadon so far down. :|

Yeah, I think a show that's run as long as SPN wouldn't still be around if there weren't 100 different ways to approach the show.

Then again, Metatron is so skeevy and he's played very well for that. I waffle between wishing it were Naomi and glad it's not her.

I'm not sure I sense them chipping away at her power - she's actively gaining power/followers/etc while Crowley is blustering, shaking and addicted to human blood. Crowley only had the upper hand when he was teamed up with the Winchesters. I think she has something up her sleeve still, but I do think she's not going to survive this season.

Mmmm, I guess I mostly meant in particular this episode. She was strong in the beginning of the show, and then there was the weird phone call between her and Crowley, which was just strange, I STILL don't understand the point of it, but this episode... it just seems like they set her up as weak when she should've been at the height of her power. I mean, Crowley's been absolutely, completely missing for months and still most of hell is waffling about whether or not to follow a Knight of Hell? Seriously?

If Crowley had actually been around, then yeah, it would've been a fight, with most of hell just hanging out to see who won. But Crowley should've basically been erased from the scene, considering how long he's been languishing in the Winchesters' dungeon. It upsets me to see her position seem as precarious as it did in this ep. (It'd be better writing, too, to have Crowley be the underdog, but everyone loves him so much, he'll be around forever, I think.)

you know, the weird lapse in her presence after such a strong start makes me wonder if they didn't suddenly change gears in the back half of the season, and maybe they'll keep her around, because of such a strongly favorable fan reaction?

Oh, man, would I love that. But all signs point to ganking her. I mean, we've got the mark of Cain and presumably Crowley's getting the blade.

On another note (and the wrong episode thread): I DO NOT BELIEVE SAM KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE MARK OF CAIN. COME ON. It's a fucking expression! People say it all the time! AS;ljsad;flkjsaj;lgaksjdg;lkjdsag;lkdsajg;ldsakjg

:( You're probably right.

Eeeeeee I am in CA, and am waiting for the magic internet portal to release the ep into the wild.

Ack, shit, are you spoilerphobic?! SORRY! D:

The ep exists... are you part of thevault here? I'm getting it now.

yup, just started the dl (although the mkv billionuploads points to ravenswood. beware!)

and no, not spoilerphobic in the least, just excited :)

I really liked this ep. I liked that Dean kicked some ass. It feels like he hasn't been doing that much lately. And it was interesting to see a comparison between Sam and Cas' relative positions regarding regret and redemption.

Also: that parallel begs the question of the parallel between Dean and Cain. I feel like while they both sacrifice for their brothers, the similarities aren't strong enough to support the notion of Dean being a notorious bad guy. Are they? I mean, they're both notorious among demons, so there's that.

Also: I am getting antsy for ABADDONNNNNN

Actually, think about it - Dean was wanted by the police, the FBI... in history, he'd likely go down as a notorious criminal, and no one would know the truth about what he'd done. I think it's an exceptionally apt comparison (though they've pretty much let that Dean die and let Dean wander around like he doesn't have a care in the world).

Right? I mean, I guess it's about POV. From everyone's POV, Cain is a bad guy, but maybe that's just bad press.

OTOH: uh, Collette, OG Manic Pixie Dream Girl? Eh, I'm really over the whole 'a lady made me see the error of my ways' thing. It would've been better if Cain's reasoning for giving up violence was predicated on something more profound.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh that makes me smile. SO MUCH. Because so many would say "but isn't love the most profound thing ever?!!"

Which, yeah... romantic love is just... not my thing? Especially as a plot point. (Which is hilarious considering how much romantic drivel I write.) But anyway, yes, I would've liked to see it be thoughtfulness, logic, whatever.

Ha! Whoops, I guess I showed my true stripes there. I saw Her this weekend, and found myself empathizing with the computer. Later I realized that that was probably the wrong message to take away from the film. ;)

Heh! It's all good. I like romantic love (for other people? which is hilarious because people often say that my wife and I are that annoying super-happy couple, which is true, but... la la la, this is a strange and long story, so perhaps not for here) but I prefer redemption to be because of self-examination, not the love of a good person.

I do like unconditional love, though, which is why, when Dean is all stupid about Sam, it redeems him for me. Dean is not my favorite character by a long shot, but his love for his brother means a lot to me.

yeah, exactly: as a motivator for behavior, love (especially 'romantic') feels relatively flimsy. It's a great thing, but its valence does not stretch to include changing someone's fundamental nature. (imo)

Yeah, I'm not sure whether or not I think it does. I... well. The people I've seen IRL who have long-lasting relationships are not necessarily those who had great romances. But there are people who seem to have that? And who have been changed in some way or another by the person they love (or changed themselves for the person they love?). And I think as a couple spends time together, they do shift and change around each other, though I don't know that that is a fundamental change in their nature.

I don't know. Now I want to think about this and write a story about it. I don't know what story, yet, but this has definitely got me thinking.

Hilariously, I tripped and watched that Kevin Bacon show last night, and the serial murderer from last season was hiding out in a place in the sticks, the love of a woman and her daughter keeping him from... killing? I guess? It's all a little fuzzy as this is the only thing I've seen. But anyway - at the end of the ep, he killed someone and now it looks like the next ep is him saying "I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack" which makes me laugh in light of your comment.

Oh! I definitely vote for a story that meditates on the nature of love and its power to affect change!

I mean, I'm sure there are examples out there, but nothing can be as satisfactory irl as pointing to a fictional character like Cain and saying, "yes, I see, his behavior before nailing the Civil War lady was bad, but after it was good." I'm sure I'm just a pessimist, but I feel like any example irl I've witnessed of someone stopping a dispreferred behavior because a loved one requested it has ended up in resentment and relapse.

For sure, people change in relationships, and the lucky ones change to fit their partner at the same rate, but like, if we took the analogy of murdering demons and applied it to real life, what would that be? Let's say...going to Las Vegas and getting lap dances. If my partner asked me to give up lap dances because love, I'd probably say ok for a while. But then you know she'd get tired of giving me lap dances at home, and I'd get restless and the next thing you know: showgirls here I come.

But that's just romantic love. I hear what you're saying about unconditional, family love. That's an entirely different ball of wax.

Oh, that Kevin Bacon show! When it first aired, I was excited, but when I could start predicting lines--word for word--I felt like I had to give it a pass. Of the two shows that started last season and dealt with charismatic cult leaders, why did that one survive?

Gaaaarthhhhh!!!

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

I am still mulling this one over. Basically my reaction really is: GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTH!!!!!

And then, also, I love it when the Winchesters are having a tough time. Also, I like Sam calling Dean on his fucked-up-ness. I think, though, that the end was.... hm. Either too much or not enough. Sam has never bought into family the way Dean has, but to leave it there? Really?

Still, I love them being uncomfortable around each other, and I can't wait for the resolution. It's (almost always) satisfying when they work it out.

It's one of the few things they haven't triangulated yet: You can have hunting and Sam, but not 'brotherhood.' Hm! It'll be interesting to see how that will play out. If they can actually show that tension, it'd be interesting, for sure.

Well, next week's trailer doesn't seem like it'll be good for that, but you never know - sometimes the guys manage to put just the right spin on things to make them work (and it could be super effective in what looks to be a humor ep).

I am still mulling this one over. Basically my reaction really is: GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTH!!!!!

This was my reaction as well!

Garth put me off a bit at first. I thought the actor was either deathly ill, or perhaps had an eating disorder. He worried me. Then I looked him up and learned of his past battle with cancer. Glad he seems to be doing well now!

And the character quickly won me over. Now I always want to give him a hug. He'd like that. Even Dean can't resist, LOL!

I love DJ Qualls, and have for as long as I've known of him. I particularly like Garth, though, because he brings a kind of sweetness to the Winchesters - the best part of which is how much, for all their eye-rolling, they crave it. Dean especially. I love the hugs.

True!

He'd better not meet a bad end - like nearly everyone who gets involved with the Winchesters seems to. No wonder they have no social lives!

Sam has never bought into family the way Dean has
No, but IMO it's because Dean has grabbed onto "family" as a crutch, it's like something that is supposed to excuse overstepping boundaries and all manner of disregarding of Sam. Because of family. I don't think Dean's perception of family is entirely healthy.

I think part of that is because Dean lost his childhood in a way Sam didn't. Dean has a huge blindspot when it comes to family and Sam knows this. Sam's reaction to what you do for family isn't at all abnormal. Dean's is. But because the narrative of Supernatural is mostly from Dean's POV, we tend to side more with Dean and less with Sam.
(my 2 cents -- I have not seen 9.13 yet so.....)

I love both brothers and their dysfunction is so painful sometimes. Ugh.

I think step-mom's version of pack and family is also fucked up, but on the other side of the coin. I felt for the preacher-dad who wasn't born but bitten and he tried to make peace with his lot in life and improve his family's chances of survival but his wife only saw his weakness and pandering to humanity.
SO SAD
I'm glad Garth has found a home!!
*sniffs*
That has made me happy. I hope we never see him again so he stays that way - LOL

No, but IMO it's because Dean has grabbed onto "family" as a crutch, it's like something that is supposed to excuse overstepping boundaries and all manner of disregarding of Sam. Because of family. I don't think Dean's perception of family is entirely healthy.

Yes, definitely! I completely agree!

I also agree that it's excellent that Garth seems happy - I hope to see him again, but not at the expense of his happiness.

I think this is one of those episodes I'm going to have to rewatch to really get. It was great to see Garth again, but I felt like--while Jensen did a great job--Dean's vitriol for Garth was disproportionate to the amount of screen time he's had. Like, if Dean had behaved that way toward Bobby, I would have gotten it. But even the 'maybe monsters are good' plot couldn't really encompass how much we as viewers know Garth. I feel like he's not well known enough to yell at? Not to mention that Garth is a delicate flower. DJ Qualls does a great job playing his vulnerability.

That's fascinating, because I really feel like Garth is one of the family. He's right up there with Charlie for me. It's more reluctant with Garth (though Dean seems to have given in pretty early on), but it's sincere and has always been. He was mentioned as much as Bobby used to be over S8.

So this pretty much held for me (and I frakking LOVE DJ Qualls), though it wasn't an episode I'll come back to again and again. I need to watch it one more time because I missed a few things while I was watching live, and I need a hook for my

episodic_supernatural story. I should probably do something with the last five minutes, but I'm not sure I'm up for that much angst. It'd have to be all internal and I hate having to write Dean POV stories where it's all thinking. And Sam's POV isn't that interesting, I don't think, because he's actually NOT thinking at the moment. At least, it feels that way to me. It feels like he's just hurting, and he's sort of wandering through his life like a zombie, trying to come to terms with everything and decide what he needs to do with regard to Dean - which he can't really do because he can't think clearly about this yet.

Cool! Are you doing like a coda to the ep?

because he's actually NOT thinking at the moment. At least, it feels that way to me. It feels like he's just hurting, and he's sort of wandering through his life like a zombie, trying to come to terms with everything ITA. Poor Sam. Jared's actually doing a decent job of showing Sam at the end of his rope.

I admit to getting a bit confused about werewolves between SPN and Teen Wolf, so whatever I felt didn't fit I just handwaved or blamed on crossing shows in my brain. :)

I'm surprised no one brought up Lenore and her vampire pack.

And I'm glad Garth didn't die at the end of the episode. I wonder if his pack is going to be involved or mentioned in the new series at all -- is it some sort of setup saying that there are 'good' packs around?

The little I've read about the spinoff is that it's five tribes of... werewolves? All werewolves? Something makes me think that some of them are vampires, but I'm sure not, considering they're probably going for the Teen Wolf groupies. Based in Chicago. And there is a hunter who is trying to pick them all off. Presumably some tribes are good and some are evil and some are just whatever, we don't believe in the good/evil dichotomy.

I don't think Garth has anything to do with it, as DJ has another series (something popular, I think) and it was near impossible getting him back on Supernatural at all.

OMG OMG OMG I WANT TO TALK ABOUT 9.13 OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Haha go ahead and start bb, I'll be there soon

.lkvj;fdjvds;lkjvds:Lkjv:LDSKjv:DSLjvdslk;lkxzjvcz;lcxkjvz;kjvv

THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL ME!!!!!!!!!

Okay, lemme calm down just a bit.

Let's start with the fact that this was WAAAAAAAAAAAY less of a humor episode than I was expecting. Which I think will be hugely disappointing for others, but isn't for me because I have an embarrassment squick, and they hit it almost every time with their humor episodes (unless they involve Gabriel, for some reason).

Then there was Sam doing plank pose. I THOUGHT THOSE WERE A GIRL'S CALVES. It was kinda super-hilarious to realize, oh, shit, hair.... and then, OH SHIT, SAAAAAM. It was nice that the objectifying was one of the boys.

In general Sam looked good all ep (which, arg, why did Jared have to be stupid on twitter, because I couldn't completely put it out of my mind all episode), and Dean looked miserable. Which makes me happy, because Jensen plays a brilliant completely-fucked-up Dean.

In general, I love where they're going with this whole brothers thing, and the moment when Sam actually says OUT LOUD: You didn't save me for me, you saved me for you, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD SAY THAT OUT LOUD ON THE SHOW.

While I believe Sam would have let Dean go if the tables were turned, I don't think Dean understands why and I think this is just going to push him deeper into his spiral of depression and self-loathing, and I cannot wait for this all to play out. I don't think they're willing to change the Winchester dynamic this much forever, so I'm feeling pretty good about where they're going to end up at the end of this season. Hopefully a little more mature, maybe Dean in a place where he can recognize he needs other people in his life besides Sam. I just am so excited about where this might be taking us. SO EXCITE.

I want to rewatch this season in fast motion and watch Dean's arc again. I feel like maybe some of the subtlety is getting lost for me. because i can see what you're saying about Jensen playing him as self-loathing and depressed and confused, but it's not gelling for me yet.

You know, it's probably because I'm inferring that - he's still in self-denial mode, which, if you look at Dean means drinking and snark (the "truth" thing at Sam about girls) and revisiting his decisions and being sure he did the "right" thing - when he knows, deep down, it wasn't at all the right thing. His insistence that he'd do it again is the problem, and he can't see that yet. Self-denial. But he's drinking heavier than we've seen him since, what was that, S5? And I think that's indicative of how much he's avoiding looking at the truth (and it's a major part of a Dean downward spiral, drinking waaaaaaaaaay too much).

Sam and Dean are on the hunt for a fish taco.

OK, since I am crazy OCD, I am linking Kate's response to this ep here: LINK so that the threads can all be found later.

Hahaha, I was just going to repost it over here!

*high fives* Yeah, I was just going to leave your first comment as the ep thread, but then I realized it didn't have a number in the subject, and it was too late because I'd already responded to you and locked it in. :/

While I believe Sam would have let Dean go if the tables were turned, I don't think Dean understands why and I think this is just going to push him deeper into his spiral of depression and self-loathing Yeah, definitely. I don't think Dean can grok that on an emotional level. Maybe not ever. It's an interesting examination of this facet of Dean's character.

What's weird to me is that they have both already been through this. We have long ago established that Sam can and will let Dean go, but the reverse isn't true. They practically traded off: s2 Dean can't let Sam go. s3 Sam lets Dean go to hell. s4 they work separated and let Lucifer out. s5 is the only season where Dean's codependence is actually the saving grace.

I forget what happens in s6 and 7 finales, but we know at some point Dean accepts that Sam is gone and lives a life. And then there is the trickster thing, where Sam had to accept that Dean was dead and became a coldly focused hunter. And Sam didn't try to get Dean out of purgatory, right?

My point is that this isn't new territory, but it's like they're exploring it in slow motion now? I guess? And I am really really REALLY glad that Sam voices his concerns about the dark, stark-terror fear that is at the heart of Dean's selflessness. It's also been said before, that Sam thinks Dean is selfish for wanting to die first. But in this season the explicit consent issues involved with actively refusing to let Sam die are being examined. It's like that old saying: there's no such thing as altruism.

And it's a great relief to me to know that this is, in fact, going to be addressed by the writers. It's weird that I spent 11.5 episodes wondering if the nature of Dean's transgressions, and their impetus were even being understood by Carver et al. Irrespective of whether or not Dean did it for 'the right' reasons or whatever else, the issue of there even being an issue of consent for Sam was concerning to me. SO that's awesome, now that it's out in the open.

ION: Dean is highly feminized in this episode, again. Take note of the fact that their conversation in the beginning, and the whole recurring 'just stating a fact' bit would have gone precisely the same way if Dean had been Sam's wife. That is how old married couples (not)fight.

Also, he's ready with the clever quip about weight and age, and then is immediately called on doing the same thing.

When Alfonso called him the 'new guy' and accused him of flirting with Sam (another instance of feminization? Or just tired old queer baiting {from the viewer's pov}/homophobia {in universe}?) for a second I thought Dean's undercover name was 'Novak.' And had to rewind and turn up the volume.

All in all, this episode soothed a lot of my ruffled feathers. I'm still not sure why they're doing this--already been done, and it's not wise to alienate viewers from the beloved POV character for so long--I'm glad that it seems to be getting done in a fairly competent manner.

Also, yeah, Jared did a really good job in the last scene. He outshone Jensen, even, which is an interesting switch.

And while the thing about grayish shades between monsters and humans has also been done in past seasons (and obviously they are gearing up to let Crowley live. This lady and Garth as a werewolf. Where else can it be going?) I enjoyed the MotW plot. They're like a cross between the adipose and the Wraith?

Edited 2014-02-05 07:36 (UTC)

My point is that this isn't new territory

Actually, I think it is.

So, in S1, there's this ep where Dean nearly dies, he's eletrocuted and his heart gives out. And then he's healed by the faith healer - which turns out to have a reaper on a leash. Sam was DEVOTED to finding a way to not let Dean die. And Dean was ready to go! He said as much to Sam, who was absolutely not going to let it happen. Dean also was ready to die at the beginning of S2, with the reaper, Tessa. But John saved his life that time.

End of S2, Dean does the very bad thing of making a deal to save Sam. But at the end of S3, Sam doesn't just "let him go" to hell - he's looking for a deal that whole season, desperate for some way to get Dean out of it. And then when Dean makes him promise not to do that (because it would undo the deal and mean that Sam would die), Sam basically resolves to do whatever it takes to get Dean back from the dead. (And goes on the demon blood path because he's so lost without his brother.)

S4 is hiding Sam's addiction and trying to prevent Lucifer's return; S5 is dealing with Lucifer's return, and yeah, the brothers' codependency really did come out the right way there (Sam's disappointment being the only thing that kept Dean from saying yes to Michael) - BUT! In the end, Sam dies (and he knows he's in for eternal torment, and so does Dean) and DEAN LETS HIM. AND! Right afterward, Dean goes to live a life with Lisa. It seems normal and happy.

Generally, because this is where Kripke's endgame was, I feel like their relationship after this point is all over the place, because it didn't have that overarching plot. But here's how I see the rest of it, anyway:

S6, Sam returns, minus the soul, and Dean doesn't even hesitate to leave Lisa. Clearly Sam trumps everything, even though he feels "off." When Dean realizes Sam's missing his soul, there is nothing that could stop him from getting it back. When Cas releases Sam's crazy, Dean is the thing that grounds him in reality for a long time (and bleeds into S7). When Cas takes over the crazy, mid-season 7, Dean's not happy about leaving him, but he does it. He wouldn't have done that if it'd been Sam.

End of S7 is when Dean goes to purgatory and beginning of S8 is when we find out Sam didn't look for him – which everyone except Jeremy Carver seems to think was out of character. Including Jared, who ostensibly knows Sam better than anyone. Apparently he fought against that decision and lost. So that, in the recent timeline, is the first indication we see of Sam giving up the fight where Dean was concerned.

At the end of S8, Sam doesn't finish the trials – because of Dean. Again, he goes with Dean above all else, when every other instinct in his body is telling him to just finish. And Dean can't let him go this time, not like he did with Lucifer, probably because while all signs pointed to Sam's death, they were completely lying to themselves and assuming he'd be okay. So Dean wasn't able to prepare, not like he was with Lucifer.

That's what I think happened here. I think if they'd taken the signs for what they were, if they'd found out a little earlier that Sam was going to die, they would've been able to come to terms with it, and Sam would've willingly sacrificed himself (and gotten Cas to promise to take care of Dean) and Dean would've (maybe) been able to accept it (with Cas's help).

But it was that unpreparedness (and realizing how he'd fallen down on taking care of Sam in the arena of his emotional and spiritual health, when Sam calls him out on how little Dean thinks of him) that led not only to Dean stopping Sam from completing the trials, but to the desperation to save his life in the beginning of S9 with little regard for the consequences.

Honestly, Sam is being super-extra harsh with Dean. He's telling the truth, which is just not usually the way he deals with Dean, you know? But he's so hurt and angry, he's not willing to pull his punches for Dean any longer, not even though Dean is clearly in a downward spiral that isn't going to end well. Sam'll come around, I have absolute faith. I think he's having a little of Dean's typical "I'm done with living" sort of ennui and when Dean gets in real trouble (presumably the mark of Cain, which Sam will have to subvert, somehow), Sam will come around.

And with any luck, Dean will also learn something – he will grow and realize that he IS selfish about his interactions with Sam, and that he does need something more in his life besides his brother.

Aaaaaaaaaaand, this has taken up too much time on a deadline day already so I will respond to other things tonight, after all my grants are in. :D

Edited 2014-02-05 20:33 (UTC)

It's weird that I spent 11.5 episodes wondering if the nature of Dean's transgressions, and their impetus were even being understood by Carver et al. Irrespective of whether or not Dean did it for 'the right' reasons or whatever else, the issue of there even being an issue of consent for Sam was concerning to me. SO that's awesome, now that it's out in the open.

AMEN. I wanted to hope they were going to address it, but I try not to get my hopes up too high - that way lies lots of heartache.

Dean is highly feminized in this episode, again.

Yup. *nods along* I don't mind, I find. I find it interesting, particularly because he's the one who's always playing so macho. It amuses me to see him feminized. Why is it we get naked Jared every year (or at least shirtless) and he's objectified, but Dean (played by the generally accepted more handsome Jensen) is never objectified in that way? Do we ever get shirtless Jensen? We haven't in years. Nor even pajamas - I guess there was the Men of Letters robe that one time, but it covers pretty much his whole body. It's an interesting dynamic.

Also, yeah, Jared did a really good job in the last scene. He outshone Jensen, even, which is an interesting switch.

He did, though I'm willing to put this on direction, a bit. Or show running. I think because Dean is still lying to himself, Dean couldn't actually react to things Sam was saying with honesty, with regret and sorrow and all those beautiful things that we will eventually see. When he's having to play denial and disbelief, there's a lot less for Jensen to work with. It was meant to be Sam's moment, anyway, really - he's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO angry, and he's taking it out on Dean, and we're meant to feel that something fierce. We have to feel it because we're NOT lying to ourselves, we KNOW Dean fucked up, and is still fucking up, and we feel for him, because we know it's going to be a while before he hits rock bottom yet.

And while the thing about grayish shades between monsters and humans has also been done in past seasons (and obviously they are gearing up to let Crowley live. This lady and Garth as a werewolf. Where else can it be going?)

True - and they love Mark Sheppard, so I imagine he'll be hanging around as long as possible. But I wish they'd more fully addressed this earlier - they seem to have absolutely no qualms about killing demons anymore, without exorcising or even trying to save the humans. It's a little frustrating. I'm with them trying to make more of an effort to not kill things that aren't evil, though. Dean only gets "kill all the things" when he's in a downward spiral.

I don't mind, I find. I find it interesting, particularly because he's the one who's always playing so macho. It amuses me to see him feminized. I've been thinking about this one. I think there's internal and external reasons (with respect to the narrative) that accidentally mesh to create a situation where Dean is routinely feminized. And that phenomena in turn has a certain effect on the composition of the audience and its point of view. They mutually reinforce each other.

I think, among the reasons that are internal to the narrative, most have been well explored already--his role as parentified child, self sacrificing, understanding of self on in relation to how functional/useful he is--these are all aspects that are typically associated with women, moreso than with men.

But its where these attributes mesh with the external factors, that's what fascinates me. My emphasis for my BA degree was language and gender, so I'm really (overly?) attuned to gendered speech patterns, and Dean frequently uses syntactic structures and speech patterns commonly associated with women. And the reason for this is, imo, because he's largely been written by women. (and not just women, but middle aged women. I can hear that, too). This gives me great joy, since we are already empathizing with Dean, since we are already using him as the proxy or gateway into the narrative, this unconscious recognition on the audience's part helps explain his appeal as the 'little black dress' - the want to be/want to fuck phenomenon.

And then there's the thing about Jensen clearly overcompensating irl, and feeling uncomfortable with being objectified--be it because he knows he can't compete with Jared in a shirtless competition, or his sense that being a former model, his masculinity has already "compromised" and therefore any more intentional objectification would make him as a person "vulnerable" somehow--that just ends up hanging a lantern on it. I feel like this is why so many villains verbalize their admiration of/ridicule of his physical beauty. It's like they are trying to take away some of his agency, as if competence were in inverse proportion to the symmetry of one's features--and I often wonder if that's not the writers having a subtle dig at Jensen.

Any way you slice it, having him be the hero and the emotional core of the show, in a way allows women to have their cake and eat it too. They can have Dean as their proxy--read as a woman, he's badass, competent and tough; a role model to young women watching the show, perhaps--and as a sexual object to be consumed.

Wow. I just.

This is awesome. I totally agree and I don't really have much of anything to add.

I'm not surprised by Jensen's thing, it's obvious in a lot of things he does, but I have no idea what it is either.

Oh, and it annoys me that the way to take away someone's agency is to notice how good looking they are. Huh? But it is; you can tell that's what they're doing, and Dean's reactions often mean he knows it, too. I dun know.

But I love Dean being our window into the series, and that window being feminine. :D

And also: it's interesting, thinking about the mythos of "The Winchesters" among demons and all supernatural creatures, to think about the MotW realizing they were hunters, but not that they're like, THE Hunters. You know? Like, this lady and her brother were being hunted by the best of the best. It's kind of like a five year old getting beaten in a game of basketball by Kareem Abdul Jabar. (Or someone more current in basketball history I don't know anything about sports.)

From that perspective, pretty much all motw a-plots are going to seem overly simplistic, even as coat hangers for the brother drama. Once you avert, cause, avert, and then cause the apocalypse, it's sort of all child's play. This is an interesting by-product of shows of this sort, and an issue perhaps unique to the form. I wonder if folks in the writers room think about this. Or if maybe they will, in future shows. They'll be like, "yeah, but let's be careful not to pull a Willow or a Sam-N-Dean, here."

Interesting! I am not sure I agree, but only on the most semantic of levels. I think Sam and Dean don't think this is a big deal (and I think that shows in the way they handle the hunt - way different than they did when they were just starting out in the early seasons), but monsters always pose a threat. They're usually jacked up somehow, so even the lowliest monster has an advantage over just one Winchester (though usually superior skills/knowledge/luck comes through for them - or, the other Winchester). Sam needed rescuing yet again this week (and he does so often, you know? I find it a little frustrating how lackluster he seems because they always need to use him as the one that's in trouble to create tension. I mean, seriously, when was the last time Sam kicked ass and took names at hunting, and/or had to save Dean's bacon). ETA: And there was more to this sentence, but, working, and arg, lost the train of though.

But I see what you mean on a meta level, monsters of the week are tough to choke down considering there's wars above and below going on.

Edited 2014-02-05 20:50 (UTC)

The Winchesters are stunned to discover that the MoL bunker is being haunted by Kevin.

Edited 2014-02-27 18:56 (UTC)

I'm really really glad Kevin got some closure, and I'm REALLY glad Mama Tran was alive!!! Totally did not expect that. But still, it sucks that Kevin is dead, and the demon at the storage space SUCKKKED. I kept imagining Jensen's day at work: pretend to be tied to a post, listen to this kid from community theater pretend to be an actor.

I liked that there is still tension between Sam and Dean. This ep's version felt much more believable to me. Maybe it was the pouting in the room. It felt like a sibling spat. Dean's passive aggressive, veiled allusions to the issue felt like classic Dean, as well.

Each pair of captives/captors reversed itself neatly, which is par for the course for this show, and Castiel is yet again an unwilling leader. Good thing angels are immortal. If they were lemmings, they'd have all jumped off a cliff by now.

On the whole, the show continues to suffer from weird editing and pacing choices. All of the scenes with the angels felt stilted and awkward when it came to line delivery. Maybe that's an intentional choice?

Still can't prove to me that Misha Collins and Ronan Farrow are two different people.

Castle Storage: a country-wide franchise in this universe?

To sum up: Won't miss Bart, barely knew him. This show needs MOAR ABADDON already.

oh and I forgot though: I'm glad we know now how it's working with the lid on heaven. That's actually a development that makes a lot of sense.

i09 has some good stuff to say about Linda and Castiel, and I love the line about the emotional event horizon lol.

Posting this for now so I can get out my feels about the most recent ep; may or may not come back to add commentary.

.

OH MY GOD FUCK THIS EPISODE STARTING WITH THE FRIDGED FUCKING GIRLFRIEND/ALMOST FIANCEE.

As soon as I saw her, I said to my wife: "She dies. And he ends up wearing the ring around his neck as a reminder of his ~tragic past~."

Fuck you, show, for making me right. I'm angry about a lot of things in these recent eps, but that just takes the fucking cake. We all know how very little Supernatural thinks about women, but the only women characters we see for this spinoff are: the fridged not-fiancee, the ex-girlfriend who has her agency stripped from her by her boyfriend's brother and her father, and the shapeshifter that wants to start a war - an evil bitch with whom we are not meant to sympathize.

Oh, and Susan, who is a piece of meat that's not even worth refrigerating. Clearly that couldn't have been a Steve.

Fuck you, show. I am not watching your spinoff.

.

Man alive, not even SPN gets any activity on stupid DW!

Noooooooooo! Tamoh! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Ha, well, it's been a tough season, and there were only a few of us here in the first place.

I'm still gathering all my feels about the season; I figure Tahmoh will be in the next ep, too, but SPN surprises me a lot on that front.

I'm hoping for a really messed up ending, so we can deal with the Mark of Cain next season - I feel like it's got way too much potential to just handily go away at the end of this season.

"I feel like it's got way too much potential to just handily go away at the end of this season."

So true!

So. That was a season finale.

I'm actually really pleased. It's exactly what I expected to happen and I'm pleased with the direction they took. I hope Dean stays a big bad for most of the next season and I hope Cas decides to fall. There's been so much fic already! I can't wait for the season end epics, I'm sure there are going to be so many amazing stories. :D :D :D

Supernatural Season 9 - Home Base

GENERAL THREAD

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9.04 Slumber Party

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9.05 - Dog Dean Afternoon

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9.06 Heaven Can't Wait

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