tv_talk | Supernatural Season 9

;slkjf;salkdjf;salkjfs;ldkfj CAS AND SAM. DEAN AND CROWLEY. CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN. This is the first episode this season where I have forgiven everything and just been :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!

I fucking love Robbie Thompson.

omg srs? I was gonna wait and watch this tomorrow, but if this ep makes you asdfghjkl; then I'm so there.

It so did. I'm getting the ep right now so I can watch again tonight. And it's the first time all season that I've felt connected to the characters, so I would forgive them anything. I want to see the behind the scenes of Jared and Misha and just how bad they were fucking around.

I tend to be in the minority here about my opinions of SPN, but wanted to add my 2 cents in about this episode anyway.

I really liked it. I like the Cain and Abel parallels - it feels like they're trying to go back to season 4 with some of the same themes playing out only Dean seems to be cozy with the demons this time around. It could be interesting.

At first I thought Dean was too easily distracted from his hunt for Gadreel. It was kind of abrupt considering where the last episode ended, but I do think Dean is spiraling down to a well of self-destruction that we've seen before, minus the alcohol. So in that respect, it kind of makes sense. Facing Gadreel is facing his more recent mistakes, tracking down and killing Abaddon isn't nearly as personal for him at the moment. I like the instant understanding Dean had when Cain described why he killed his brother. Dean totally got it. Dean's on board. That's not going to play out well for anyone, btw.

Back at the bunker:
For months now I've been saying that I'd like more Sam and Cas scenes. But they were so awkward.
And I'll never understand why the show continues to harp on Sam's past mistakes, but the timing (recovering from violation/betrayal) and source (Castiel) of it in this episode felt insensitive. Cas was supposedly making a "human connection" with Sam and the way he chose to do so, above the ridiculousness of the PBJ sandwich, made their entire interaction feel awkward. :/

A showdown of Abaddon and Crowley seems to be coming, but one between Castiel and Gadreel would be more interesting (Metatron kind of bores me, he feels more like an instigator than an interesting antagonist). How different are Castiel and Gadreel? How different are Abaddon and Crowley? And how are the angels and demons going to continue to play the Winchesters, stringing them along so they get caught in the midst of it all?

Anway, I'm looking forward to the rest of the season even more now!

I don't think you're in the minority at all - I often feel that about myself, which just means that we've got at least two groups of people with differing approaches to the show, is all.

I totally agree about Dean's downward spiral, and I'm really excited to see Dean's storyline for the rest of this season. I've felt very disconnected to Dean so far, and this makes me feel much better about his arc (and I'm so pleased to see them giving Jensen more to do than look upset about lying to Sam!).

I really liked how awkward Sam and Cas were - that's one of my favorite things because they both can be awkward and they were awkward together! Also, knowing how bad Jared is behind the scenes and how susceptible Misha is, I had that second layer of "tee hee!" that makes me excited for the gag reel and outtakes.

I also agree about Metatron - super boring! I just feel like they messed up with that character and now don't know what the hell to do with him. Gadreel is way more interesting. I'm guessing Cas will get his revenge on Metatron because Metatron fucked him over, meanwhile Sam will get revenge on Gadreel, because Gadreel fucked him over. But maybe they'll have a heart to heart first because they're both basically just fuckups. :)

The fight for hell is less interesting to me because they keep chipping away at Abbadon's power. She was the first truly scary big bad they'd had in a while, but they've started to make her look weak, which sucks. I love Crowley and all, but I would like the battle between him and Abbadon to be epic - not a walk in the park because they've dumbed Abbadon so far down. :|

Yeah, I think a show that's run as long as SPN wouldn't still be around if there weren't 100 different ways to approach the show.

Then again, Metatron is so skeevy and he's played very well for that. I waffle between wishing it were Naomi and glad it's not her.

I'm not sure I sense them chipping away at her power - she's actively gaining power/followers/etc while Crowley is blustering, shaking and addicted to human blood. Crowley only had the upper hand when he was teamed up with the Winchesters. I think she has something up her sleeve still, but I do think she's not going to survive this season.

Mmmm, I guess I mostly meant in particular this episode. She was strong in the beginning of the show, and then there was the weird phone call between her and Crowley, which was just strange, I STILL don't understand the point of it, but this episode... it just seems like they set her up as weak when she should've been at the height of her power. I mean, Crowley's been absolutely, completely missing for months and still most of hell is waffling about whether or not to follow a Knight of Hell? Seriously?

If Crowley had actually been around, then yeah, it would've been a fight, with most of hell just hanging out to see who won. But Crowley should've basically been erased from the scene, considering how long he's been languishing in the Winchesters' dungeon. It upsets me to see her position seem as precarious as it did in this ep. (It'd be better writing, too, to have Crowley be the underdog, but everyone loves him so much, he'll be around forever, I think.)

you know, the weird lapse in her presence after such a strong start makes me wonder if they didn't suddenly change gears in the back half of the season, and maybe they'll keep her around, because of such a strongly favorable fan reaction?

Oh, man, would I love that. But all signs point to ganking her. I mean, we've got the mark of Cain and presumably Crowley's getting the blade.

On another note (and the wrong episode thread): I DO NOT BELIEVE SAM KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE MARK OF CAIN. COME ON. It's a fucking expression! People say it all the time! AS;ljsad;flkjsaj;lgaksjdg;lkjdsag;lkdsajg;ldsakjg

:( You're probably right.

Eeeeeee I am in CA, and am waiting for the magic internet portal to release the ep into the wild.

Ack, shit, are you spoilerphobic?! SORRY! D:

The ep exists... are you part of thevault here? I'm getting it now.

yup, just started the dl (although the mkv billionuploads points to ravenswood. beware!)

and no, not spoilerphobic in the least, just excited :)

I really liked this ep. I liked that Dean kicked some ass. It feels like he hasn't been doing that much lately. And it was interesting to see a comparison between Sam and Cas' relative positions regarding regret and redemption.

Also: that parallel begs the question of the parallel between Dean and Cain. I feel like while they both sacrifice for their brothers, the similarities aren't strong enough to support the notion of Dean being a notorious bad guy. Are they? I mean, they're both notorious among demons, so there's that.

Also: I am getting antsy for ABADDONNNNNN

Actually, think about it - Dean was wanted by the police, the FBI... in history, he'd likely go down as a notorious criminal, and no one would know the truth about what he'd done. I think it's an exceptionally apt comparison (though they've pretty much let that Dean die and let Dean wander around like he doesn't have a care in the world).

Right? I mean, I guess it's about POV. From everyone's POV, Cain is a bad guy, but maybe that's just bad press.

OTOH: uh, Collette, OG Manic Pixie Dream Girl? Eh, I'm really over the whole 'a lady made me see the error of my ways' thing. It would've been better if Cain's reasoning for giving up violence was predicated on something more profound.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh that makes me smile. SO MUCH. Because so many would say "but isn't love the most profound thing ever?!!"

Which, yeah... romantic love is just... not my thing? Especially as a plot point. (Which is hilarious considering how much romantic drivel I write.) But anyway, yes, I would've liked to see it be thoughtfulness, logic, whatever.

Ha! Whoops, I guess I showed my true stripes there. I saw Her this weekend, and found myself empathizing with the computer. Later I realized that that was probably the wrong message to take away from the film. ;)

Heh! It's all good. I like romantic love (for other people? which is hilarious because people often say that my wife and I are that annoying super-happy couple, which is true, but... la la la, this is a strange and long story, so perhaps not for here) but I prefer redemption to be because of self-examination, not the love of a good person.

I do like unconditional love, though, which is why, when Dean is all stupid about Sam, it redeems him for me. Dean is not my favorite character by a long shot, but his love for his brother means a lot to me.

yeah, exactly: as a motivator for behavior, love (especially 'romantic') feels relatively flimsy. It's a great thing, but its valence does not stretch to include changing someone's fundamental nature. (imo)

Yeah, I'm not sure whether or not I think it does. I... well. The people I've seen IRL who have long-lasting relationships are not necessarily those who had great romances. But there are people who seem to have that? And who have been changed in some way or another by the person they love (or changed themselves for the person they love?). And I think as a couple spends time together, they do shift and change around each other, though I don't know that that is a fundamental change in their nature.

I don't know. Now I want to think about this and write a story about it. I don't know what story, yet, but this has definitely got me thinking.

Hilariously, I tripped and watched that Kevin Bacon show last night, and the serial murderer from last season was hiding out in a place in the sticks, the love of a woman and her daughter keeping him from... killing? I guess? It's all a little fuzzy as this is the only thing I've seen. But anyway - at the end of the ep, he killed someone and now it looks like the next ep is him saying "I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack" which makes me laugh in light of your comment.

Oh! I definitely vote for a story that meditates on the nature of love and its power to affect change!

I mean, I'm sure there are examples out there, but nothing can be as satisfactory irl as pointing to a fictional character like Cain and saying, "yes, I see, his behavior before nailing the Civil War lady was bad, but after it was good." I'm sure I'm just a pessimist, but I feel like any example irl I've witnessed of someone stopping a dispreferred behavior because a loved one requested it has ended up in resentment and relapse.

For sure, people change in relationships, and the lucky ones change to fit their partner at the same rate, but like, if we took the analogy of murdering demons and applied it to real life, what would that be? Let's say...going to Las Vegas and getting lap dances. If my partner asked me to give up lap dances because love, I'd probably say ok for a while. But then you know she'd get tired of giving me lap dances at home, and I'd get restless and the next thing you know: showgirls here I come.

But that's just romantic love. I hear what you're saying about unconditional, family love. That's an entirely different ball of wax.

Oh, that Kevin Bacon show! When it first aired, I was excited, but when I could start predicting lines--word for word--I felt like I had to give it a pass. Of the two shows that started last season and dealt with charismatic cult leaders, why did that one survive?

Supernatural Season 9 - Home Base

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