tv_talk | TV Tuesday: Dystopian Hope

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I don't usually respond here because I'm awful at thinking of answers, but this one I can. I have been coming to view a lot of what's offered up as "violence as entertainment", because look at the sheer number of cop shows involving gunfire. Action involving gunfire or blowing people up. Doctor shows with docs at gunpoint to "fix him!" Terror and violence, and audiences lap it up. (I have my own exceptions, but I still will point at those particular shows as examples anyway.)

I found myself last fall/early winter leaning into Hallmark-type shows and also the sappy Christmas movies. I needed the happy endings. The hopeful. There may well be a challenge but it all ends with love and self-responsibility. When Calls the Heart became my go-to on DVD's from the library since I don't have a Hallmark subscription. Shows that are hopeful like Virgin River, and Sullivan's Crossing, and The Way Home. People figuring things out and while grief may happen, love prevails.

I'm so glad you weighed in! It's funny you should mention this because two days ago I watched a documentary via Hulu, Last Take: Rust and the Story of Halyna. Rust was a movie not a TV show, but there was some limited discussion of how often guns are used in productions, and particularly so given this was a western. I think someone mentioned (perhaps in hyperbole, perhaps not) that guns were in every shot of the movie.

But what struck me was hearing the director talk about the discussions he'd had with the murdered cinematographer. They added shots of guns being pointed into scenes, to make them more dramatic and urgent. The scene that ended up killing her and wounding him, was (supposedly) not even meant to have a gun drawn and pointed but it was supposed to feature Alec Baldwin drawing it slowly from his holster and cocking it. Their belief boiled down to the idea that (my words) a scene was less boring if a gun was being pointed.

It reminds me of the great debate that went on in the 2010s about how often characters were killed off on TV, either because writers couldn't think of what else to do with them, or because it was a cheap way of raising the stakes on something. In short, a ratings ploy, to get audiences more engaged. And it worked of course. An angry audience also gets a show into the news, makes other people more aware it exists. But guns and death substitute for more subtle drama, and character development, and other emotions beyond aggression and anxiety.

Yes, all this. Interesting about Rust!

>> In an interview, Seth MacFarlane said that he created The Orville because “the dishes that we are serving up are so dystopian and so pessimistic.” <<

That's a great thing. The first season was the most hopeful and innovative though. After that, it got a great deal darker. *sigh*

>> Do we need hopeful television? <<

Absolutely. Before we can make the world a better place, we must first identify what we dislike here and then imagine what "better" might look like. Television, theatre, art, and writing are all ways to show examples of that. Some TV shows are really good at this, others not so much.

I'm a writer, working a lot in crowdfunding. My fans favor the more upbeat series, although I do write some very dark stuff as well. And then people ask, "Okay, these characters never seem to walk more than a few blocks to a bus stop, or wait more than 5-10 minutes for a bus. How does that society make it work?" I wound up digging into bus maps and federal budget. Well, turns out both federal and local government put a lot more into mass-transit, so it's better. And that hooks into everything from how many parks there are, to share bikes, to most apartment buildings having their own shuttlebus for trips. I wound up writing a whole piece on "How to Make Your Hometown More Like Bluehill."

Can dystopian television be hopeful?

Well, one of my series, Daughters of the Apocalypse, is what my fans call "postapocalyptic hopepunk." I haven't seen a version on TV but it should be possible. It's really about focus. There's a ton of beautiful postapocalyptic art with vines growing over ruins, but that's not really dystopian. With dystopian settings, there's a very dark aspect somewhere, so you'd have to work around that a good bit -- without erasing it.

>> Which shows are hopeful to you? <<

High Potential is the best I've seen for talking with a baby genius about how to cope with challenges that smart people have.

The Chobani solarpunk ad stands out for showing a hopeful future.

I tend to avoid dystopian stuff nowadays because it looks too much like the news. :/

I've only seen a few episodes of The Orville so I didn't really know what had gone on with it. So that seems rather odd given how it apparently started. I wonder if it had to do with ratings/feedback/etc.

So true about the news 😟

>> I've only seen a few episodes of The Orville so I didn't really know what had gone on with it. So that seems rather odd given how it apparently started. I wonder if it had to do with ratings/feedback/etc. <<

The first season has some of the best SF ever written. After that, there are still some breathtaking episodes, but a lot more of the, hm, standard SF tropes.

>> So true about the news <<

I quit watching TV news decades ago when I realized that I no longer had anything to say about it other than "Da, eto Pravda" (which literally means "Yes, that's the Truth" but colloquially "bullshit") or "Panem et circenses" (bread and circuses). I used to like dystopian entertainment, as a reminder that things could always get worse. Well, now they're worse, and it's not fun anymore.

I just read a review about the latest episode of RuPaul's drag race and how the hardships the contestants go through have changed so much.

In the earlier seasons it wasn't unusual for contestants to say that their family broke off all contact when they came out as gay and now people speak about how much they were supported. I think one contestant this season said that his church choir sung a song for him when he came out.

How lovely!

That's really cool.

This is why I watch Kdramas. They're either personal stories, or they're about fighting corporate or political corruption. (There's a LOT of fighting corruption.) And there are only very rarely guns, though martial arts type fight scenes aren't uncommon.

That's not to say I don't watch English-language tv, too, but I'm just not super interested in murders, murder investigations, or people being horrible. (Never watched Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or anything like that.)

Yes, American TV is riddled with guns, and of course cop shows. Much prefer mysteries to police dramas.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer - it had a never give up theme, they kept saving the world at impossible odds.

Angel the Series - somewhat darker - but also a never give up theme. They had a theme - if nothing we do matters, than we should live life as if everything we do does...and the small things count.

Battle Star Galatica v.2 - we can find a home, if we keep striving

Lost which had oddly enough the same theme as The Good Place, and Buffy - don't give up. I found The Good Place very hopeful.

MASH was weirdly hopeful...even if it was about an endless war...humor in the face of adversity?

So yes, I think it can be? Depends on how it is done?

Approach really is everything. Good Place is an interesting example since in some ways it has a rather dark theme but on the other it really feeds hope.

There's an interview with Margaret Atwood where she says "each dystopia contains a little utopia within it, and each utopia contains a dystopia within it. Because unless we have an idea of what is better and what is worse, we can't do these forms at all." She was talking about novels, but it would apply to shows as well. I mean, if you take Star Trek, which is probably one of the most utopian franchises ever, there are some very dystopian elements to be found across all of the series.

I think most dystopian shows do have some, maybe not utopian elements -- let's say -- a degree of hope/optimism? I mean, dystopian shows are set in places/worlds/times that feel hopeless, everything is horrible, etc., but the stories only start when someone challenges that, decides that things don't have to be that way/could be better, etc. Which is hope, right? It's the catalyst for all dystopian shows.

Anyway, I guess I'm a bit odd because I mostly watch stuff that, based on comments in this community, most would consider dark? I love police procedural/crime thrillers/true crime/forensics/dystopian stuff. I don't know why, but I'll choose that sort of thing over lighter fair 99% of the time. That's also what I prefer when it comes to books. That said, however, Ted Lasso has become a bit of a comfort show for me. I'm not one for rewatching things -- there's too much new stuff out there -- but I have rewatched Ted Lasso a couple of times when I felt a need to distance myself a bit from world news and the like. And I think if all we had were mostly happy/hopeful shows, that would get really annoying/boring fast. At least, it would for me.

That's a good point about the balance within each story, no matter the genre. And that's true, in a way dystopian places only have one direction to go!

And yes, the happier shows have to have counterpoints, otherwise everything turns into a blandness. I find it no coincidence that the era of the teen drama soon saw some of the darkest programming as well, whether the Sopranos, the Shield, Oz, or even NYPD Blue.

TV Tuesday: Dystopian Hope

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