tv_talk | TV Tuesday: Meta and Ranking

Eu costumo dar estrelas de 1 a 10 para tudo que assisto, mas nunca penso muito nisso. Foco mais em ler as páginas de trivia do IMDb, assim como wikias como TVTropes ou Wikipedia sobre aquela obra. Às vezes leio postagens, reportagens ou opiniões com os pensamentos de pessoas diferentes sobre a obra. Faço minha própria análise pessoal e às vezes eu até escrevo sobre isso. Mas nunca percebi se me aprofundava muito ou se só fazia isso de forma superficial.

So when you rank shows, you do it on IMDB? I'm assuming there are other places that do it too, but am just mentioning it because it was what was discussed in the article.

I also use Wikipedia constantly for shows, particularly since there may now be a number with the same name and they might be old or recent (or reboots!) It's impressive how often there is at least a brief page on a show, even though there are so many of them now from all parts of the world.

That's great that you write reviews/meta as well! From the sound of the article, the in-depth nature of the writing seems to matter less than whether it examines the work at all. (And I'm not sure by what measure we would say that one post is more profound than another anyway). I know that someone posted last month at

meta_warehouse about similar complaints being made at Tumblr though, so this is definitely a problem happening in many places.

O que me irrita às vezes é quando alguém assiste algo e espera que todos os outros também tenham o mesmo pensamento ou questionamento. Mas não naquele sentido de "olha, mais alguém poderia estar falando disso", mas sim do tipo "como é possível aquela pessoa não estar falando disso". Quase que insistindo.

Por exemplo, o filme alemão Corra Lola Corra é ótimo, mas infelizmente pouquíssimas pessoas abordam o poder da personagem principal, focando às vezes única em exclusivamente na aparência dela, na fotografia do filme ou nas cenas de "ação" da obra. Eu gostaria de mais gente abordando o loop temporal e o poder da personagem, mas infelizmente não há e sinto que por isso não tenho com quem falar sobre a obra. Vou exigir alguém para fazer o que gostaria de ver? Jamais, mas nem todos pensam assim.

Quanto ao IMDb eu uso ele porque faz anos que tenho conta lá e acho ele bastante prático. Tentei o Letterboxd mas não gostei. Nunca entendi os demais sites então fico unicamente no primeiro, que é o IMDb.

Sobre a Wikipédia uso ela para auxiliar com informações sobre o que estou vendo. E em conjunto com o IMDb posso assim ger grandes informações sobre a obra.

Exemplo, assisti um filme com Marisa Tomei e Robert Downey Jr. chamado Only You, infelizmente o canal o apresentou em espanhol por alguém erro (algumas pessoas acham que no Brasil se fala espanhol e não portugues), consegui entender um pouco da obra mas precisei acessar os sites (Wikipedia e IMDb) para poder compreender realmente o filme.

Minha mãe e eu ficamos analisando o filme, mesmo que somente eu tenha entendido algo porque conheço um pouco de espanhol (tive que explicar para ela mais da metade da obra). Mas falando sobre nossa análise conversamos sobre o figurino, as locações, o enredo da trama e claro o final dela depois de todo o decorrer do filme.

Fazemos isso sempre. Mas às vezes eu não trago essas reflexões para a internet porque infelizmente muitas pessoas tem esse mal hábito atualmente de reclamar sobre uma obra e ficar nessa luta de rankings.

E daí que o filme é de 94, que a trama é boba e muito piegas. Que há um português interpretando um italiano e que a dublagem não é das melhores. Eu gostei. Minha mãe também. E é só isso importa. No entanto se eu tivesse falado online sobre ou pressionado provavelmente encontraria pessoas que odiaram e reclamando de quem gostou.

E é isso que me irrita nesse tipo de coisa dos rankings.

Yes, I see what you mean about how people appreciate different things. Very often it's the case that people can all be fans of the same thing while seeing an appreciating entirely different things. (This tends to become very obvious in fanworks!)

IMDB does also have the advantage of having been worked on by many people for a long time, so there's a good deal of information built up. Plus, of course, there's public commentary which Wikipedia does not have.

That's really sad that you have (understandable) reasons for not sharing those insights. I think we could all learn so much about a work from the different perspectives that people bring. I know, for example, that I am particularly likely not to notice how music is used. The more effective it is, the less I notice! So I find it so interesting to see what other people took from it.

You're quite right about how rankings can obscure a lot of things. We can enjoy imperfect things. Sometimes it's a matter of timing, sometimes it's the company, sometimes it's because we happen to like a particular thing it does well.

Novo comentário porque consegui só agora ler completamente o artigo e realmente é triste como a crítica a arte está sendo reprimida. Que as longas análises e meta essays estão desaparecendo. E tudo porque as pessoas não aceitam que haja opiniões diversas sobre algo. A maioria infelizmente tem a profundidade de um pires e não entendem que criticar às vezes é uma forma de amor àquela mídia, muito mais do que essas guerras de pontuação em rankings do IMDb, Letterboxd ou Rotten Tomatoes que são feitas para reduzir a popularidade daquilo que não gostam a nada. Tudo por não aceitam algo que outros gostam.

Eu lembro quando houve aquela enxurrada de ódio com pontuações baixíssimas em todos os sites contra o live action de Little Mermaid com uma atriz negra. Esse foi um dos mais falados, mas antes disso a comunidade cinéfila já havia passado pelo mesmo com outros títulos que tinham mulheres ou minorias com grande enfoque, principalmente protagonismo.

Barbie passou por isso. Sense8 também. Killing Eve. E poderia citar mais, mas isso só encheria esse comentário com obras que foram criticadas por causa de pensamentos racistas, machistas ou homofóbicas. E isso é chato.

Eu sei também que obras que o maior público eram mulheres também passaram por isso. Eu li sobre enquanto estava no Twitter, Tumblr ou LJ. É cansativo.

Eu dou estrelas para diversas mídias conforme meu gosto e jamais daria nota ruim só porque a obra está fazendo sucesso mais do que algo que eu gosto. Isso é ridículo. Me lembra das guerras de shipp que existiam.

Achei o arquivo incrível. Muito bem detalhado e importantíssimo. Eu gosto muito de críticos que sabem analisar o que assistem. Sei que se não fossem os fãs fazendo isso eu jamais saberia como algumas séries são (a exemplo disso cito The Sentinel). Eu cresci lendo colunas de jornais e revistas com artigos e notas de crítica ou indicação de obras diversas e isso formentou meu gosto pela arte.

Me fez ser bem criteriosa com o que consumo. Tanto que muitas vezes filmes que foram fracasso de bilheteria, que públicos internacionais odiaram e que chegaram a cancelar franquias costumam ser os meus favoritos. E aqueles que muitas vezes foram hypados e bastante famosos costumam ter nota mediana ou baixa nas minhas listagens.

I agree. When I first started the

marchmetamatterschallenge, I felt that the biggest problem was that older meta for fandoms was disappearing because few people bothered to save it when they moved to new platforms or when hosts disappeared. But people started saying they were seeing less and less of it. I thought this was true for several reasons, but my thought was that it was so much harder to find than other fanworks, especially because many pieces were unlikely to be tagged as such.

But the article points out another reason, which is increasing pressure on fans not to write or share it. I think it's a shame because it erases a large part of fandom interaction. To me, meta often formalizes what is already being discussed in some way in the fandom. (And when it's meta of fandom itself, it erases the history of the general fandom as well).

To be sure, a lot of what the article focuses on are fandoms where the pushback has been for racist or misogynistic reasons. That's probably because fandom tensions overlap with that of the general public (I would be $100 right now that most of the people complaining about the Little Mermaid's casting had never watched the original, nor care about it at all).

And yes, ship wars are part of this. I don't think the article mentions it but there has been a lot of AI slop uploaded to AO3 site for the sole purpose of making certain ships seem more popular than others. Talk about lose-lose!

And while here have been many examples of films that were considered box office failures which became much more popular, or even classics, later on, it's true of TV shows too. The "Netflix effect" has happened to a number of shows largely ignored on their original broadcasters that then did very well once they got exposed to a bigger audience on Netflix.

É o que eu sinto. Lembro que fui dar minha opinião de uma série que assisti e fui hostilizada. Uma coisa horrível.

Outra vez postei que estava vendo determinado episódio e fui motivo de risos por um colega de trabalho que ficou debochando que "eu postava tudo que assistia". Esse tipo de coisa mina a vontade de alguém em dizer algo sobre o que seja.

Yes, it really does. I'm sorry that happened.

I love thoughtful meta -- long posts on some seemingly unimportant background detail, interesting discussions on canon that can spark more meta or even fic based on the questions asked, theories that make rewatching all that more exciting... Meta is probably the thing that truly got me into fandom, more so than fanart or fanfic (and if nothing else then it certainly got me into university), so to see it dwindle is heartbreaking to say the least. The ranking war seems like just another example of where the energy that once went into meta is now (sadly) going to instead.

The very fact that we must usually sit down to think about what we mean to say invites us to spend more time on a given set of characters, themes, and whatnot instead of just hopping onto the next thing. That itself could help "retain" fans in an age of short-lived fandoms and of shows that automatically start streaming some ten seconds after we've seen the last episode of something else. A good story -- or a story we love, anyway -- isn't exhausted on our first contact with it, after all, so I find it weird to see how a lot of people don't seem all that keen on engaging with the things they love on a deeper level, as if those numbers they contributed to in some way sufficed. Some friends have reported that their work environments already demand they engage or analyse whatever it is they work with and that means they wouldn't want to bring that dynamic into their fandom life as well; I suppose that makes sense but I'd also wager that most people out there aren't necessarily professors who analyse things for a living. It doesn't quite explain the number fixation, either.

Then again, the inability of some to engage in civil conversation and respectful disagreement really is a big argument in favour of not sharing one's own thoughts on something -- I know I myself have occasionally held back from posting a text or another for fear of backlash despite the certainty that my point of view was laid out in a way that did not attack anyone who thought differently to me.

I don't know. Personally, I don't look at rankings on IMDb or anywhere to determine if I want to watch something or not, the same as I don't look at stats on AO3 before clicking on a fic (hiding those with a site skin was perhaps one of the best decisions I ever made on there). On the other hand, I do enjoy reading other people's comments on a story (if there are any), just as I pay attention to what some critics will say of a film or a series -- neither will influence my willingness to give the thing a try, whatever it is, but it amuses me to discover what the overall reaction is and whether my own thoughts will echo it or not (and in what ways). Words, to me, convey much more meaning than any set of numbers ever could and a little back and forth, even if sometimes demanding thanks to the uneven level of spoons we might have at any given time, will always be more worthwhile and memorable than some score -- especially when that score has been tampered with, whether by fans or by haters.

(And this is long enough so I'll abstain from offering an additional 2c about how numbers get used in campaigns to "save" cancelled shows and even impact the way fans interact with one another, heh.)

Yes! It's all part of the circle of inspiration. Fic that inspires meta, meta that inspires fic (or fanart or a fanvid!)

Funny you should mention the immediate streaming of a next episode. I confess it can be handy when I'm watching something while washing dishes or exercising. But the way our actions are anticipated does contribute to the idea that we're just consuming content. (I particularly hate when the platform insists upon jumping me to the most recent episode, even if I left off in the middle of one four episodes back!)

Agreed -- in fact, if anything I know a number of academic types are exactly the kind who do tend to a lot of analysis.

A lot of what people object to often has very little to do with any actual attack on them, and revving up a posse to attack the thing they took against destroys things haphazardly. Just earlier today the administrator of Squidgeworld.org -- which coincidentally is a platform that welcomed meta that got ejected elsewhere, since they accept all fanworks -- reported on people bombarding the site with hate comments because one person whose work was removed for problems with an AO3 import accused the site of being run by fascists. Given that the entire site is a non-profit offered for free to users, (it goes without saying that what a fascist is clearly isn't understood by the haters) the weariness in reporting this issue came through loud and clear.

I also like to read comments because I'm curious if they'll reveal what in a work spoke to them. (This is particularly true about fanart, since I often can't think of anything to say other than the fact that I liked it).

Oh yes, one could say there's a meta awaiting writing in the whole issue 😉

Absolutely! I feel like something's always missing when I pop into a given fandom and there's hardly any meta talk going around. I love fics and gifs and drawings and video edits and the like as much as the next person, it's just that there's that gaping hole right in the middle... And now I'm reminded of having written something up and having someone else respond to it in the tags with a sort of self-deprecating comment, as if they were "underqualified" to offer their own point of view. Maybe that's another factor in why some fans stay quiet, their own negative perception of themselves...?

Yeah, the insta-stream model can be handy but it's definitely not very conducive to thinking back on what we just saw, is it? Of course there are shows we just want to binge anyway and who cares, some stuff is a lot more enjoyable without delving in too deep, but still.

I saw that, re: the crap tossed at Squidgie earlier. I wish I could say I was surprised but awful behaviour is so common at this point that, yeah, it's just tiresome. Things like this sometimes make me think of simply deleting everything and disappearing forever so there's no chance of some person with way too much time on their hands and far too little consideration for someone else to come up with some hate campaign for something I've said/done or, worse, something they think I've said or done (that's the paranoia speaking, I guess, but then it exists out of seeing too many other people get attacked just because of some little shit).

Do you really find it harder to comment on fanart? That's interesting! I usually won't write as long a comment under a drawing as I would a fic but I like trying to find something that stood out and focus on that (and, speaking of fanart, I'd say there's some meta potential about how fanart's also been a little less prevalent than I remember -- although, hah, I hesitate to write it lest anyone accuse me of saying "artists should starve" just because I see Patreon as part of the reason why there seems to be less fanart going around in my particular circles... *Sigh*)

You kid but I just picked one of the many little texts I had rotting in a notebook and typed it up for posting later. Talking about meta breeds meta! :)

You're not wrong about that. I used to have a mutual who would often comment that she felt stupid reading some of my meta posts. And I remember some years ago now that someone reported people on Tumblr felt intimidated by Pillowfort because it was where the "smart people" were. Given the memes, fanart, cat and food photos, and personal updates that made my regular feed I had to wonder what they were talking about.

That's a good point to about algorithm driven sites and how people are supposed to be lightly amused (or enraged) by content they go scrolling by. It's very much the opposite of a site like this one.

Yep, there's too many cases of it that have gone around for it to be paranoia.

It's hard for me to say because LJ/DW was always too image unfriendly for it to be a hotbed for fan artists. And the lack of native hosting means it's never been as prevalent on AO3 as it could be. Pillowfort does have a lot of fan artists (and artists generally), though I've only occasionally seen fanart for my fandoms. So I've never been accustomed to seeing a ton of fanart each day. I know that's traditionally been the case on Tumblr, though now with so much locked up I've no idea how much is going on there.

It does indeed!

That's a peculiar observation regarding Tumblr users' view of Pillowfort ones... Also because, even if it were true, shouldn't it be a positive thing? Don't we want to be near "smart people", if only to lurk and learn from them (well, amidst the memes and cat photos)? Hm.

Yeah. Which is why I spend a lot more time on here now. There might be less people but quantity never equated to convo quality :)

It's a bit of a hassle to host drawings elsewhere first for sure but it's so easy once we get the hang of it. I'm currently posting all of my fanart exclusively on DW by having it on Squidge (again Squidge -- an invaluable resource!) since Tumblr really just doesn't feel welcoming anymore, be it because no one else seems to be using it for that purpose at this moment in time, be it for the totally different reaction people have to fanart on there now as opposed to a couple of years ago (the whole like x reblog deal, which funnily enough circles back to the subject of numbers in fandom. It's very unsatisfying to gain just a few notes there. What's interesting is that I will get zero corresponding numbers here on DW but maybe a comment or two instead... And that feels SO much better than receiving a handful of likes and little to no reblogs over there. Psychologists, here's a case study for you!)

I would suggest the U.S.'s current regime suggests otherwise... Because I'm in complete agreement. I want leaders (and fellow travelers) to be smarter than me! You learn more that way, plus I have a competence kink. I don't care what it is that you're good at, it's great to see people who are really good at what they do.

Yes, Squidge offers so much. As I don't do fanart it isn't directly helpful to me, but I'm glad it is to others (icon makers, for example!)

I've never gotten a big response to anything anywhere, but I can understand it. I think it has to do with "being seen" in more than just a cursory way. Personally I don't mind a like or kudos, I like knowing someone saw something at all and wanted to let me know it. But with meta it's particularly nice to see what engaged someone and maybe started their wheels turning.

Ack, that's a bitter reminder of real-life events... But yeah, absolutely. Nothing like seeing someone who excels at what they do!

I guess it's a consequence of knowing how a lot of people spend their time scrolling mindlessly, right? It's a bit annoying to make something and feel like no one really stopped that scrolling for even a second to look at it more closely -- a feeling that, weirdly enough, is worse when there are stats available to track reactions as opposed to when there are none. And then, I don't know about you, but with meta it's like I don't want it to make a big splash at all -- the "just scroll by" attitude doesn't mesh well with reading attentively and it's easy to visualise someone responding to/spreading a comment we make on something while absolutely misunderstanding it and creating a storm out of nothing (similar to the situation with Squidgie). Eh.

I can see that point of view. I have sometimes been disappointed by the things in a meta that someone will latch onto and object to, in which case no comment at all is preferable!

Do you enjoy getting into the weeds with your TV viewing?

Yes. (actually if you've seen my posts on tv talk - it's pretty obvious at this point that I love that. But it's clear to me that a lot of folks are put off by it. )

I tend to like to analyze and critique tv shows, films and books that I love - and like to deconstruct and critique it - figuring out in the process what works for me and what doesn't and why. And enjoy discussing it and sharing it with folks who do the same. [Only thing I don't tend to do it with is music and maybe paintings or photographs.]

I also happen to enjoy reading others meta, critiques and analysis of it. I love reading critical reviews.

And I was taught how to do it in undergrad - there are courses on media analysis. And I took a lot of them. (I've done Gilbert and Sullivan, Comic Books, Literary Fiction, British Theater, Cinema, Genre Fiction, Folk Tales, Art, and Television Shows). I analyzed black humor in the television show MASH in undergrad for a course - and got critiqued for not being critical enough of the show and its use of women. (I was 21 at the time and it was 1988. Now, I would be very critical of it, but not at 21 and in 1988. Also to be fair? MASH is a dark and at times biting absurdist satire about the Korean War that took place in the 1950s and aired between 1970-1981 - it's not supposed to be feminist and progressive, which I pointed out at the time and ran in the brick wall of my professor who strongly disagreed with me.) So long story short? I was taught to be harsh on television and film and books - to review with a constructive and critical eye. And to analyze various themes. So for me - it comes naturally to me? Kind of like breathing?

That said - admittedly there are some things I don't want to think too much about - or it will ruin your fun? Reality shows come to mind. So do a lot of criminal procedural series - I wouldn't for example - bother analyzing Bones, Castle, CSI, Law and Order, NCIS, Star Gate,...or Grey's Anatomy. Most long-running American television franchises don't lend themselves to in-depth analysis well. That and a lot of sitcoms - I don't analyze Friends or think too hard about it, nor do I do it with Seinfield, or Cheers. I'm not sure it's a good idea to spend too much time analyzing Bridgerton either - and I don't.

I do however get off on analyzing daytime soaps - part of the fun is ripping those apart with my mother.

So, I'm not necessarily consistent?

Do you find viewer rankings of shows to be helpful?

Sometimes? Mostly I just find it fun to read and do. It often tells me more about the ranker than anything else. I find people's tastes interesting to read about?

a post lamenting how critical examinations of canon content are increasingly challenged as the wrong way to do fandom.

The only wrong way to do fandom - is if what you are doing actively hurts or excludes someone else, condones behavior that actively and deliberately excludes or hurts another person. Other than that? Anything goes?

I think some folks who are active in fandom have some difficulty figuring out exactly what that line is? And have gotten into lots of trouble on numerous occasions because of that difficulty. Most fandom kerfuffles on social media platforms - are because people can't figure out where that line is, and have crossed it?

Part of being in any discourse, fandom or otherwise, is tolerating perspectives other than your own. That's a lot easier said than done. Particularly when emotions are involved. The more emotionally invested folks are in their own point of view or perspective on something (be it a love of a character, ship, television show, plot arc, fanfic, what have you), the more upset they will be at any opinion contrary to it, in direct opposition to it, or critical of it.

It's true of all things - not just fandom though. I've seen people tear each other apart on nutrition discussion boards.

I think it makes perfect sense that you'd enjoy analyzing some things but not others, and maybe at different times (not on a first watch, for example). I do think that later on it can extend one's interest in a show or story, but that could just be me.

And yes, the emotional investment can end up making something closely guarded.

Oh dear about the nutrition boards!

Not just you - analyzing Buffy and Angel, along with other shows like Doctor Who, Lost, BSG, Once Upon a Time - did extend my interest in the television shows and made me love them more at the time. It admittedly depends on the television series?

I don't understand why folks are threatened by meta and reviews - of things that they didn't create themselves? They can just ignore it.

I love meta and engaging with canon in thoughtful ways! I think because of the negativity that sometimes seeps into a fandom tag, like on Tumblr, I might be worried about putting my thoughts out there generally speaking - discussion is one thing, but getting bashed is another. And getting anon hate definitely ruins my fun. BUT I do feel like meta posts are making a bit of a comeback on Tumblr, so I'm hoping to see more of it. I haven't really gotten into viewer rankings, though. People reviewing shows/characters etc. does make me excited to watch or read something, but that's not really about the ranking itself.

I think canon discussion is also helped when the material is still ongoing. When you have an episode to look forward to, that naturally leads to people talking about what happened in the previous ep and what they think may happen in the future (probably one of the reasons why I saw a fair amount of Heated Rivalry meta).

I hope you're right about the comeback! Unfortunately, while I have been pointed to Tumblr various times I have regularly found the posts either locked or Tumblr does not let me see them 😟

Yes, I think having a literal community for meta (or at the least, a community atmosphere for sharing) makes a difference. Meta is pretty much designed for engagement and is most likely to find it if people know where to look for it vs stumbling across it in a feed that may contain many other very different things. It's very difficult today to get things to people that want them given how sites work, and people have been trained to use them.

Yes, I think meta (and reviews for that matter) has been affected by the change (and length) of release schedules these days. Gaps give shows time to grow and also an opportunity for people to invest in what has happened and what might be to come.

Oh right, I forgot posts are locked if you don't have an account now :/

Do you find viewer rankings of shows to be helpful? Or do you find thinking too much about what you watch ruins your fun?

both? :D

I like to get into the background and production information and cast of shows I watch, but this information may just as well turn me off the whole topic completely. It's a two-edged sword.

In cdrama in particular, the Chinese fandom landscape is toxic as hell, and you wouldn't want to go near it with a ten foot pole. So this is difficult for me. At least the language barrier kind of does its own work there, so the toxicity stays away from me unless I go actively looking for it.

Yes, personally I avoid trying to know anything about the actors and don't tend to read about the shows at all unless it's something I'm very fannish about (which has not happened in some time). And yes, some fandoms do get a reputation.

I like meta that engages lovingly with the show. I don't mean being 100% positive, but unless it's a specific calling out for eg racism, I personally prefer to read people at least being even-handed about stuff: engage critically, sure, but don't just bash it. I don't really get the point of hate-watching.

Sometimes I check ratings, like on rottentomatoes, but I have loved shows that rated very poorly (I'm thinking specifically of the TV show of The Time Traveler's Wife, but I'm sure there've been many), so I try not to pay too much attention or let the numbers sway me.

But if I see someone in my milieu speaking negatively about a show that I'm in the middle of watching, it can derail me even if I wouldn't necessarily agree with their opinion. I've fallen out of Kdramas and given-up-before-starting various English language shows just because I saw someone else dissing them or even damning them with faint praise. (This is probably a personality failing, but it's just just the way I am. *shrugs*) This means I often avoid all meta until I've finished a show, unless I'm looking for external vindication/validation of my issues, and a reason to quit it.

Yes, I wouldn't want to read meta of a show I'm in the middle of (especially given the short length of seasons these days). Too much chance of a spoiler, especially since I am usually behind with most shows. In terms of ratings, I used to notice how Netflix users rated a show, but since they changed it to just a thumbs up or down I find that rather useless.

That said, I definitely used to read them back during the Buffy and Supernatural days when we had week long waits and a lot of the discussion was speculation, but only after I'd seen the latest episode myself.

I used to read Angel recaps on TWoP, but I couldn't read the Buffy ones because I loved the show too much, and the snark would sting a bit. Whereas, by the end of Angel, I was mostly sticking with the show so I could read the snarky recaps. ;-p

I think I didn't start reading on TwoP until I was at the end of Angel. I'm not sure I did so for Supernatural, as I recall there was a lot of reviewing activity on LJ as well as a few other spots.

TV Tuesday: Meta and Ranking

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject