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tv_talk2025-11-23 07:42 pm
yourlibrarian) wrote in tv_talk2025-11-23 07:42 pm
A Tale of Two Competition Shows
Dancing with the Stars which had its 20 year anniversary this month, has been on so long it had its own In Memoriam segment. (Charo and Wayne Newton though, in the audience, still with us). It was a great show, starting with an excellent opening number. Funnily enough, I turned to my partner and commented on how well choreographed it was, only to find out a minute later that it had been done by Derek Hough.
"He should choreograph everything," he said. There were a number of excellent dances, as well as a good effort by Andy Richter.
The best moment though, was at the start when we not only saw the original pros start the show (I can't believe there were no interviews or moments with them about their memories – guess that was all saved for the podcast) but Tom Bergeron was back. I am quite happy with Alfonso and Julieanne as co-hosts but I miss Tom.
And speaking of hosts, Project Runway has had a more checkered history for several reasons. Besides its multiple switches of networks (Bravo, Lifetime, back to Bravo, with my now watching it on Disney+) there have been various production interruptions. So Tim Gunn was on Under the Gunn (a clever variation on PR, focusing on mentorship and using an American Idol model), and later he and Heidi did Making the Cut for Amazon. This season she returned to PR, but not him.
It's understandable since this would mean booting Christian Siriano (and perhaps Tim Gunn no longer wanted to do the show). But what struck me was how telling his absence is.
Their 2025 season is not at all the happy celebration that DwtS is having. I found Cut annoying, and also stopped watching PR when I felt they were amping up contestant controversy just for ratings. Unfortunately, Heidi's return just has the producers doubling down on this aspect. On the judging panel now is Law Roach, who seems to have been chosen for their acerbic commentary bound to stir ill feelings. The show has focused on all the infighting among contestants, including one who seemed to go out of their way to needle other contestants, yet ended up winning the season.
In short, PR seems to be engaged in a desperate bid to get viral moments going on Tik Tok or whatever other social media hellscape is currently popular. Their most direct competitor seems not other long running shows like DwtS, but the Real Housewives franchise. Even as the warm and cozy Great British Baking Show has ever more iterations, PR has gone in the opposite direction of its original dignified and no-nonsense workroom mentor to instead pursue moments of hysteria and nastiness.
If PR and DwtS don't seem that much alike, they even both had Wicked episodes this season! DwtS had the director of the films as a guest judge. All the numbers on the show used the music and followed the chronological order of the films. On PR they had the actual costume designer from the film meet with the contestants and give feedback on their Wicked influenced designs before the runway show.
Interestingly, in that Wicked episode, Tyra Banks was a guest judge. If only she had worn something as striking and restrained when she had been hosting Dancing with the Stars! She looked way better with toned down hair/makeup and a great gown that was better than most of the contestant designs.
While I don't know the behind the scenes of what went on with Tyra's seasons, they seemed to be their own effort at changing the demographics for DwtS, which had always skewed older. She took over during the pandemic, which was a difficult time to be doing that sort of show. However Disney also moved the show exclusively to Disney+ for her seasons. My best guess is that there were hopes that she would bring her audience to the streaming service and that diehard fans would also subscribe to keep up with it. The fact that she was going to executive produce suggested to me that this profit sharing was either a necessary element to get her to agree, or that there was a behind the scenes struggle about the direction of the show.
However she was a poor fit as a host. The fact that Ribeira and Hough take part in a dance at the start of most episodes speaks to their former time as contestant and pro. Banks knew nothing about dance, and was the solo host and interviewer for 2 seasons, which was awkward and only showed how difficult it was to do live hosting. While the DwtS costume department has always done amazing work, one suspects they had little to do with choices for her wardrobe, which was more often unflattering and distracting than an asset.
It was a relief when she left, and it was just about that time when the show started developing its resurgence. It returned to ABC, and either their social media strategies finally hit their stride or they actually had been boosted by Tyra's presence (possibly in a way negative to her).
To some degree one can say that DwtS stuck with what people loved about the show over the years, while just increasing the wow factor of the performances and the set design. After the first early seasons the show moved farther and farther from its ballroom focus. Gone were weeks when everyone learned the same dance, and the main focus was on technique, with contestants as likely to be new to dance as to have some experience. Now many contestants have been (or still are) dancers, making it easier to do more elaborate routines more quickly. Newbies end up doing show pieces with relatively little dancing, and the dances are chosen for the music they're assigned rather than a progression of ballroom dances. Some end up at the end of the season not having done one of the standards.
To be sure, Disney has also made each season ever more commercial, not just by having mandatory "Disney Night" episodes but by featuring music from and promotion of a single musician, or tie-in such as Wicked. While I find this overdone, I have to admit that the incremental changes they keep making probably keep the show fresh. Len Goodman's death probably came at the right time, when the show's social media presence may end up wagging the dog. For longtime viewers (and judges and pros) it was a unifying event, and opened things up to more guest judges (including returning pros). But the continuing changes are ones he probably wouldn't have approved of.
Meanwhile, I found so much of PR stressful and unwatchable that after a few episodes I focused on the runway shows alone and the critiques (which were already combative). There were still some great designs, and I found one of the three finalists' show to have a great collection. But I'm not sure how much interest I have in watching anymore. Len Goodman's loss is sad for me, and the elements he supported for the show. But I can't help thinking Tim Gunn didn't want to come back to a show like this whereas Len stayed until the end.
"He should choreograph everything," he said. There were a number of excellent dances, as well as a good effort by Andy Richter.
The best moment though, was at the start when we not only saw the original pros start the show (I can't believe there were no interviews or moments with them about their memories – guess that was all saved for the podcast) but Tom Bergeron was back. I am quite happy with Alfonso and Julieanne as co-hosts but I miss Tom.
And speaking of hosts, Project Runway has had a more checkered history for several reasons. Besides its multiple switches of networks (Bravo, Lifetime, back to Bravo, with my now watching it on Disney+) there have been various production interruptions. So Tim Gunn was on Under the Gunn (a clever variation on PR, focusing on mentorship and using an American Idol model), and later he and Heidi did Making the Cut for Amazon. This season she returned to PR, but not him.
It's understandable since this would mean booting Christian Siriano (and perhaps Tim Gunn no longer wanted to do the show). But what struck me was how telling his absence is.
Their 2025 season is not at all the happy celebration that DwtS is having. I found Cut annoying, and also stopped watching PR when I felt they were amping up contestant controversy just for ratings. Unfortunately, Heidi's return just has the producers doubling down on this aspect. On the judging panel now is Law Roach, who seems to have been chosen for their acerbic commentary bound to stir ill feelings. The show has focused on all the infighting among contestants, including one who seemed to go out of their way to needle other contestants, yet ended up winning the season.
In short, PR seems to be engaged in a desperate bid to get viral moments going on Tik Tok or whatever other social media hellscape is currently popular. Their most direct competitor seems not other long running shows like DwtS, but the Real Housewives franchise. Even as the warm and cozy Great British Baking Show has ever more iterations, PR has gone in the opposite direction of its original dignified and no-nonsense workroom mentor to instead pursue moments of hysteria and nastiness.
If PR and DwtS don't seem that much alike, they even both had Wicked episodes this season! DwtS had the director of the films as a guest judge. All the numbers on the show used the music and followed the chronological order of the films. On PR they had the actual costume designer from the film meet with the contestants and give feedback on their Wicked influenced designs before the runway show.
Interestingly, in that Wicked episode, Tyra Banks was a guest judge. If only she had worn something as striking and restrained when she had been hosting Dancing with the Stars! She looked way better with toned down hair/makeup and a great gown that was better than most of the contestant designs.
While I don't know the behind the scenes of what went on with Tyra's seasons, they seemed to be their own effort at changing the demographics for DwtS, which had always skewed older. She took over during the pandemic, which was a difficult time to be doing that sort of show. However Disney also moved the show exclusively to Disney+ for her seasons. My best guess is that there were hopes that she would bring her audience to the streaming service and that diehard fans would also subscribe to keep up with it. The fact that she was going to executive produce suggested to me that this profit sharing was either a necessary element to get her to agree, or that there was a behind the scenes struggle about the direction of the show.
However she was a poor fit as a host. The fact that Ribeira and Hough take part in a dance at the start of most episodes speaks to their former time as contestant and pro. Banks knew nothing about dance, and was the solo host and interviewer for 2 seasons, which was awkward and only showed how difficult it was to do live hosting. While the DwtS costume department has always done amazing work, one suspects they had little to do with choices for her wardrobe, which was more often unflattering and distracting than an asset.
It was a relief when she left, and it was just about that time when the show started developing its resurgence. It returned to ABC, and either their social media strategies finally hit their stride or they actually had been boosted by Tyra's presence (possibly in a way negative to her).
To some degree one can say that DwtS stuck with what people loved about the show over the years, while just increasing the wow factor of the performances and the set design. After the first early seasons the show moved farther and farther from its ballroom focus. Gone were weeks when everyone learned the same dance, and the main focus was on technique, with contestants as likely to be new to dance as to have some experience. Now many contestants have been (or still are) dancers, making it easier to do more elaborate routines more quickly. Newbies end up doing show pieces with relatively little dancing, and the dances are chosen for the music they're assigned rather than a progression of ballroom dances. Some end up at the end of the season not having done one of the standards.
To be sure, Disney has also made each season ever more commercial, not just by having mandatory "Disney Night" episodes but by featuring music from and promotion of a single musician, or tie-in such as Wicked. While I find this overdone, I have to admit that the incremental changes they keep making probably keep the show fresh. Len Goodman's death probably came at the right time, when the show's social media presence may end up wagging the dog. For longtime viewers (and judges and pros) it was a unifying event, and opened things up to more guest judges (including returning pros). But the continuing changes are ones he probably wouldn't have approved of.
Meanwhile, I found so much of PR stressful and unwatchable that after a few episodes I focused on the runway shows alone and the critiques (which were already combative). There were still some great designs, and I found one of the three finalists' show to have a great collection. But I'm not sure how much interest I have in watching anymore. Len Goodman's loss is sad for me, and the elements he supported for the show. But I can't help thinking Tim Gunn didn't want to come back to a show like this whereas Len stayed until the end.
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he wasn't asked back - he wanted to be on the show, Heidi wanted him on the show but the show didn't ask him back. a little later they asked him to be in one ep, but he declined.
I really miss him on the show, but apparently he has said some not so positive things about judges and contestants, so maybe thats why he wasn't asked back?
But I didn't like this past season as much as earlier ones, I agree with you that they seem to be focusing on drama and creating tiktok moments. The contestant were constantly biting at each other and that wasn't fun imo.
no subject
I can't see him as wanting to go along with this new direction so it was likely for the best. Christian being something of a diva himself does not help when it comes to negotiating difficulties among the contestants. It, and his Under the Gunn season showed it was not easy being a good mentor and Tim really was quite good in his judgments.
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