Looking for recs with unlikeable or deeply flawed women lead characters

[dancesontrains]

My partner mentioned to me a while back that Eleanor Shellstrop from 'The Good Place' is one of the few lead women characters sey've seen who are awful in the selfish and mean way she is; usually they tend to be catty or bitchy (I've not yet finished S2, no spoilers please).

I was wondering what other lead women or girl characters come to mind that fit this dynamic? Hyacinth Bucket from 'Keeping Up Appearances' is the first to come to mind, a stunning performance of deep denial and heavy class pretentions (not sure if this was called something else in the US or other countries). Or on a darker note, Jill from the horror comedy 'Nighty Night' https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0395404/ who is unashamedly vile.

Granted I've mostly been watching stuff with male leads recently, but I was wondering who else there is that fits this unlikeable or deeply flawed niche?

Comments

[rocky41_7]

I'm not sure if all of these count as leads but I would say these characters fit:

- Sioban "Shiv" Roy from "Succession"
- Eleanor Guthrie from "Black Sails"
- Anne Bonney from "Black Sails"
- Max from "Black Sails" (*I* think Max is a doll but I see how that might not be the universal opinion lol)

Interested to see what other folks come up with!

[dancesontrains]

Thank you! Both shows are ones I want to watch :)

[rocky41_7]

Hope you enjoy!

[china_shop]

Ooh, interesting question! My partner and I just brainstormed for a bit and came up with a few. I don't know if they all count as unlikeable, but:

* Mare of Easttown
* Sarah in Orphan Black - mostly season 1; selfish, but not unlikeable
* Deadloch - Edie
* Doc - the main character is recovering from being unlikeable and deeply flawed, but there are plenty of flashbacks to when she was
* Slings & Arrows - Ellen (but this is more of an ensemble)
* Newsroom - Jennifer Anniston's character /o\
* Witch's Romance - Kdrama about an ambitious journalist hated by all her colleagues, and the very sweet younger man who falls for her

[yourlibrarian]

Out of curiosity, since I didn't see all of Newsroom, did you mean Morning Show by any chance?

I hadn't thought of it but I could see that take on her in that show.

[china_shop]

Oops, yes, you're right. Morning Show. (Sorry, we were at maximum vague yesterday.) I found Alex extremely self-involved and awful, especially in season 2.

[yourlibrarian]

No worries! It had just made me wonder if she got the Morning Show role because of an earlier stint on Newsroom, since that's definitely the sort of thing that happens.

[dancesontrains]

Thank you!

[caramarie]

The lead in Inspector Koo is the first person who came to my mind. She's such a gremlin.

[dancesontrains]

Ooh, a Korean show. Thank you!

[starfleetbrat]

I've always thought Piper from Orange is the New Black was awful and selfish.

[dancesontrains]

Same, hence I never watched it tbh :p I do hear the first seasons are good though.

[rionaleonhart]

Oh, interesting question!

I only watched the first season of Batwoman - I ended up dropping it because it was a little too relentlessly miserable for me - but I really enjoyed what an absolute catastrophe of a person Kate is. It also featured a very intense and messy love-hate relationship between her and antagonist Alice, which I feel is a dynamic you don't often get to see between female antagonists!

[tellshannon815]

I stuck it out to the end and honestly I was always team Alice (just never get me started on Ocean, that...thing...she's with in season 2. The one pairing I can honestly say is my NoTP due to one truly shitty thing he does.)

[dancesontrains]

I am only familiar with the comics version of Kate Kane, though I did watch several seasons of Flash and the first of Supergirl. Knowing a bit about average CW tropes - do you think she's meant to be unlikeable or is it incoherent writing?

I am also going to assume Alice is similar to the one in the comics I read, which I will expand upon in DMs if you don't mind spoilers.

[rionaleonhart]

It's been a while since I watched, but as far as I remember she felt to me like a coherently written, very flawed character! Kate's writing was my favourite part of the show; she felt so unusual to me as a female protagonist. Feel free to spoil if you'd like!

[jo]

Carrie Mathison (Clare Danes) in Homeland is deeply flawed, and her job (CIA agent) requires her to be ruthless and manipulative, which means she isn't particularly likeable a lot of the time because of what she does/has to do. You might respect her, but not necessarily like her.

[dancesontrains]

Yeah, I've heard that! And that the show has decent bipolar rep?

[jo]

And that the show has decent bipolar rep?

Well, the character is bipolar. I can't comment on how well/badly/accurately/stupidly they depict it as it's not something I'm familiar with at all.

[dancesontrains]

That's fair! It's something I saw commented on when it was airing, but I'm not bipolar myself or sure of the commenters' own mental health.

[jo]

Out of curiosity, I did a quick search and found loads of articles lauding the show's depiction of Carrie's bipolar disorder. Here are just a handful:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/shrink-speak/201411/homeland-true-portrayal-mental-illness

https://www.sbs.com.au/whats-on/article/how-homeland-became-a-pioneer-in-the-portrayal-of-mental-illness/veqzqu7wv

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/01/homeland-carrie-mathison-bipolar-disorder-claire-danes

https://www.nami.org/bipolar-and-related-disorders/the-new-normal-actress-claire-danes-homeland-and-hollywoods-new-take-on-mental-illness/

[dancesontrains]

Neat, thank you!

[lokifan]

I'd second Sarah (and arguably its Alison) in Orphan Black season 1, and Eleanor in Black Sails. I think Yellowjackets has some of that as well but I haven't seen it. Perhaps Pretty Little Liars? Certainly its character Alison fits this imo though whether she's a lead character is ambiguous at best!

I love this question cos I love all the characters I've mentioned! I think it probably helps that all these shows I've mentioned are centred on ensembles of women - other than Black Sails, but it has a big ensemble main cast. Probably if you have 4 or so central women it's easier to have one or more do genuinely selfish, unkind things without worrying that people will be put off by the show as a whole.

[tellshannon815]

I'd say Shauna for Yellowjackets. As for Orphan Black, what about Rachel?

[dancesontrains]

Thank you! Very true about the ensemble casts.

[tinny]

This seems obvious - since she's also played by Kristin Bell - but the FL in Nobody Wants This is pretty flawed in some ways, and so are all her (female) relatives. I liked the show overall, and she's presented in a bearable way most of the time, but the family still got on my nerves. I would still rec it, it's not a bad show overall.

[dancesontrains]

Ooh, thank you!

[tellshannon815]

Got to be Hannah from Dark for me on that one. (And yet while she's not really one of my favourite characters, and I didn't root for her with Ulrich at all, she's provided me with a lot of writing inspiration over the last couple of years.)

[dancesontrains]

Oh, I promised a friend I would watch that! Ty :)

[executrix]

Not sure if you just mean TV, but Hedda Gabler isn't exactly a teensy ray of sunshine. And likeability is in the eye of the beholder, but Wicked's Elphaba and Glinda are certainly deeply flawed.
And not sure if B7's Servalan is a lead or a supporting player, but she is indeed not only awful and selfish but has a literal army to be awful and selfish with. I haven't seen The Expanse but I think Avarasala (sp?) is a bit Servalanish.

[dancesontrains]

I posted this to a community called tv_talk, so I didn't think it was necessary to clarify. But thank you for the recs.

[yourlibrarian]

I'd say Patty Hewes from Damages can definitely come off as mean and selfish though I wouldn't say she was catty, she's too controlled for that.

[dancesontrains]

Oh I've not tried that one, thank you!

[delphi]

Seconding Eddie from Deadloch, and adding the (unnamed) titular character in Fleabag.

[dancesontrains]

Fleabag! I have wanted to try that for a while, since the lead also worked on the first (and apparently best? only good?) season of Killing Eve, which I hugely enjoyed but never caught up with afterwards. Villanelle <3

[alba17]

Both lead characters in the recent Netflix show The Girlfriend, who are slightly psychopathic, lol.

Possibly Carrie Coons' character, Bertha Russell, in The Gilded Age. Ruthlessly ambitious and completely unapologetic.

Also maybe the two lead characters in The Hunting Wives, another recent Netflix show, who are both hiding terrible bad acts in their past, and one is also having a fling with an underage boy - her friend's son!

Julianne Nicholson's character, Sinatra, on Paradise, another ruthlessly ambitious character, willing to do pretty much anything to get her way.

Julianne Moore's character, Mary Villiers, in Mary & George, a real historical figure, who connives to get her son, George Villiers, into the bed of King James 1 to achieve riches and fame. Shameless self-promotion of my vid for this show, which gives you a good preview: Beautiful Boy.

[dancesontrains]

Thank you! I've not heard of some of these, will have a look :)