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tv_talk2023-08-26 10:11 am
yourlibrarian) wrote in tv_talk2023-08-26 10:11 am
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Speak Up Saturday: Sex Scenes
A lot has changed in the last 20 years for U.S. television in terms of explicit sexual portrayals and explicit discussion of sexual acts. I came across an article which argued for what makes one well done (Warning: Spoilers for Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 6):
"Yes, sex scenes in television today may have the ability to show as much nudity as they want, but two hot actors getting undressed does not a good sex scene make...reminder that great writing will always outclass shock value."
I think many might argue that character and slow build storytelling matters more than nudity, but what other elements make for a good sex scene, and which shows do you think have done it well?
What's more, what differences are there in non-U.S. productions that are better or worse when it comes to portraying sexual intimacy?
"Yes, sex scenes in television today may have the ability to show as much nudity as they want, but two hot actors getting undressed does not a good sex scene make...reminder that great writing will always outclass shock value."
I think many might argue that character and slow build storytelling matters more than nudity, but what other elements make for a good sex scene, and which shows do you think have done it well?
What's more, what differences are there in non-U.S. productions that are better or worse when it comes to portraying sexual intimacy?
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Emotional impact certainly can make a sex scene stand out: If it's not "just" sex but expresses something deeper about the characters, their relationship, or the situation that they are in. I still remember the first Brian/Justin sex scene after the attack in Queer as Folk (US), and how Brian handled Justin as if he were made of glass. QAF had a lot of very hot, very well-made sex scenes, but this one... Oof. There's also another previous sex scene, in which Brian sleeps with a Justin proxy because the real Justin is, well, still hurt, and it's so damn heartbreaking.
Other recent-ish sex scenes that impressed me:
- A masturbation scene in the very first episode of BEEF that worked wonderfully for setting up Ali Wong's character.
- The Kate/Anthony sex scene in Bridgerton S2. Mainly because both actors are good-looking and acting their hearts out with tons of chemistry to spare. I'm not a big Bridgerton fan, but I thought that this was one of the few things that actually worked for the show due to the long UST teasing throughout the season.
- Basically, every Homelander sex scene on The Boys because they exemplify him being A Huge Mess.
The last Speak Up Saturday post stated that we're welcome to post about the shows we're currently watching, so I'm going to finish my post doing exactly that:
- Still watching Deadloch. Eddie is a refreshingly disgusting and brash female character. I wish there were more like her, particularly queer ones, even if I get the queer people who are Team "We don't want to claim that woman." Don't really care about the case but the investigation remains good fun.
Main criticism: Even though I enjoy her a great deal, Eddie should've been allowed to be smarter in order to make up for the majority of her loud, crazy antics. It's simply frustrating to see her making one stupid assumption after another and thereby repeatedly pissing off Dulcie, who sometimes seems to be the only reasonable adult in the room.
- Started watching Guardian because
- Ragnarok S3 is out, and a buddy has already warned me that it pretty much let him down. I probably won't bother with it until I'm bored and/or out of shows to watch. :/
Edit: Remember the time The Good Wife was deemed revolutionary/scandalous for including a scene in which Peter performs oral sex on Alicia? That was 2010.
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Absolutely magnificent storyline. And I'm not only saying that because I love both Andrew Scott and hot fictional priests.
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Also a good example with Homelander at least so far as character development or reveal.
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- Non-US productions:
As far as my experience with K-dramas goes, those barely feature sex scenes. It took a really long time until I saw an erection being addressed and that was mainly played for laughs to the embarrassment of the aroused person in question. I also recently, and for the first time, saw a scene in which a character was interrupted during masturbation. Again, non-graphic and played for laughs. (For scale: I have been watching K-dramas for about 9,5 years.)
As for Germany:
For a while, over a decade ago, things were quite spicy in some of our daily soaps. I remember one really juicy M/M shower scene that some homophobic "Think of the children!" people were concerned about. Unfortunately, after the copyright holders wiped YouTube clean of practically any DeRo clips, I now barely see them being mentioned in fandom circles despite having a sizable international following at the time. I still think of that one shower scene as being quite revolutionary, in retrospect, particularly due to the fact that the queer representation on this specific soap has been pretty abysmal over the last ten years.
In 2021, a pretty steamy show was released over here that was advertised with buzzwords like "female gaze" and "full-frontal nudity". I watched it with two friends because the entire thing screamed trash from the get-go and we are avid trash watchers. Verdict: We barely lasted one episode because it was so terribly boring, heteronormative, and cliché. Even if the sex scenes had been interesting (which they weren't), it wouldn't have kept us glued to the screen, not even for the trashiness. Never heard anything good about it and, as far as I'm aware, it was never renewed for a second season.
- Other shows I have remembered for their sex scenes:
American Gods, Jinn/Salim. Neil Gaiman recently posted a link to this Buzzfeed article about the scene in question: How "American Gods" Pulled Off That Explicit Gay Sex Scene. I think that having Bryan Fuller onboard helped tremendously.
Catastrophe. An honest, raw, and hilariously filthy comedy. Sure, I would have enjoyed it without the sex scenes but that would've been an entirely different experience that clearly wasn't intended by the show creators. It, obviously, is not a show about ~just sex but it is a show about a relationship in which sex -- and talking about it -- is important from the very beginning.
Probably the raciest title I can offer: Pornographer, a Japanese BL manga adaption. (Disclaimer: I do not recommend it for its story or the sex scenes, I simply think that both complement each other well.)
The story, in very basic terms, centers around a young man (Kuzumi) who falls for an older porn novelist while he helps him transcribe his books. Kuzumi caused Novelist to break his right arm, so, obviously, that's the morally appropriate thing to do. During these transcription sessions, Kuzumi begins to imagine the porn scenarios in Novelist's books. Soon, he and Novelist take their place in some of those. (Note: Novelist writes F/M, so they are merely a starting point for Kuzumi to discover his interest in men.)
The thing is: Those sex scenes are not particularly nuanced or romantic -- and they are not supposed to be. They represent fantasy, desire, and transgression. I think they work pretty well in the context of Kuzumi discovering himself and coming to terms with his attraction. For what it is -- a BL manga adaption with all the clichés and issues that typically come with BL mangas (I cannot emphasize this point enough, iykyk!) -- it is pretty atmospheric and well done.
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Interesting story about the German soap. Thinking back to our first Tuesday post asking about TV genres, I realized later we never mentioned soap operas or telenovelas, but nor had anyone mentioned them. For some time that was the most likely place to find sex scenes or serious issues addressed, despite its daytime broadcast.
Pornographer is certainly an interesting show premise, and still sounds leagues ahead of what is available in the U.S. I would say in many ways it's less about explicitness and more about just trashy fun. I don't see the U.S. there yet as we're just now getting to the RomComness of it all.
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I didn't mention soaps because I've been out of the fandom for over a year and I'm not really planning on falling into that hellscape ever again. That said, I always found it interesting that American soaps (or at least the ones I've seen bits of?) seem to have such a different vibe compared to what we have over here. As the World Turns, for example, during Luke/Noah seemed a little antiquated to me. I mean, while Luke/Noah was the first gay male kiss on American daytime television, we had shower sex here in Germany. (And this wasn't the first gay couple I'd ever seen in a soap. That honor belongs to a different soap that aired its gay storyline in 1997.) Edit: When I say "antiquated", I'm not referring to the gay storyline but the feel of the show in general.
I mean, there was Secret Diary of a Call Girl. Harlots. However, I really wish there was more room for awkwardness, curiosity, and sincerity in all of it, not just primarily in the entertainment aimed at teens and young adults.
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Don't just do it to do it. (And a lot of shows do - unfortunately - there's a lot of really boring action flicks and books out there with too many gratitutious fight scenes, same deal with sex scenes.)
Buffy did something interesting. It combined the fight scene and the sex scene - so the sex scene was a fight scene. They basically realized that sex scenes/fight scenes were a choreographed dance. Part of the reason they worked well with Spike - is Marsters took dance and knows how to move, and also had taken judo, as had Gellar. So they knew it was a dance. It works best as a choreographed dance on screen.
It's easier to propel character and plot forward with a fight sequence - there's conflict, there's friction, and it changes things, also winner and loser or stalemate. It's harder to do with sex scenes. It's why - a lot of people do rape scenes - because you hello conflict, it's a fight scene with sex. It's not because they are pro-rape, it's just easier to propel plot and character with it. To me? It's lazy writing. If you can't find a way to make a sex scene interesting without going the rape route? Don't do it.
What Buffy managed in Smashed, Wrecked and again in Dead Things - which blew me away, was interesting and compelling sex scenes, suspenseful even, without going down the rape route. In Smashed they start with a fight sequence - then fall into the sex scene, and the sex scene takes down the building, metaphorically showing a game-changer. They also have the male character naked throughout, not the female - with the female gaze. Interesting subversion there - which we can thank Gellar for - since she had a clause in her contract stating she couldn't be nude on camera or have a body double who was. Bridgerton kind of does it too - but not as well - since they go a bit overboard. History of Violence and Mr. & Mrs Smith - both combine violence and sex, without going the rape route.
Bridgerton manages to do sex scenes without going the violence route at all - and they build up to them fairly well, and in S1, it has friction - since it is the woman doing the seduction and manipulation not the man.
The trick is less is more, I think? Do it - then suggest afterwards. Also if there's no chemistry between the leads and they need to be in a romance (because of the characters) try to show less. On-screen chemistry has zip to do with how well the actors get along. Often two actors who don't get along - have better sexual chemistry - mainly because the camera picks up on friction better than "friendliness". It's why Cybil Shepard and Bruce Willis had dynamite chemistry, Stephanie Zimbalist and Pierce Bronsan did, and Nathan Fillion and the actress who played Kate did in Castle. They hated each other - and looked great together. Same thing was true with Officer and a Gentleman. In fact, Dustin Hoffman once advised Geena Davis to never sleep with her co-star - because it killed the romantic friction.
Marsters and Gellar had great chemistry - not because they despised each other, but they fought a lot and teased each other. Kind of a rivalry - which generated great chemistry, but also made it possible for them to work together. Same with Marsters and Landau - both knew how to generate chemistry.
Some actors know how to do it - Marsters does, Cillian Murphy, Robert Downy Jr...some actors don't and can only do it with actors who do. Boreanze doesn't - he only had chemistry with Marsters, Gellar, Denisof, and Benze - but they were doing 90% of the work. And it's also in the eye beholder - I didn't see any between Boreanze and Carpenter, but others did.
Characters also need chemistry - and it requires a build up. Go too fast, audience/reader is turned off, go too slow, they lose interest. It really is a dance, and it's not easy to do. Requires banter, conflict (external and internal organic to the characters) and it should be a journey for both characters not just one or the other.
Star Wars - had no sex, but did do a good romantic relationship with Leia and Han, which furthered the arcs of all of the characters in those films.
Bridgerton has sex - but furthers the arcs of all the characters in Queen Charlotte.
Outlander - spends too much time using rape to further its characters and plot arcs. I mean I get it for one character - but all the leads, and repeatedly? Ron Moore and Diana Gadaladone need to see a really good therapist, and possibly the devoted fans? I stopped reading and following it - because I found out that it did that - and relied mainly on rape to further all the plot points and character arcs. That's a perfect example of lazy writing in regards to sex scenes.
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And less messy. And she's carrying the child - to protect her financial interests.
Basically he was being an ass.
It's important not to project modern sensibilities onto it - because in today's world, in most cultures, that wouldn't have been a problem. (Although it is unfortunately in others - we live in a patriarchial society, where women are still treated like property in many places in the world.)
Bridgerton isn't really a romance show a la Hallmark, it's social commentary kind of similar to Jane Austen. Shonda Rhimes and her show-runners are commenting on gender politics and inequalities along with racial and class inequalities through a satirical romantic series. I've not read the books, so I can't say whether they did it too or not.
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We seem to approach the show from different angles: I watched it as a fun, romantic Regency romp because that's how it was advertised in several of the promos. While I would have loved to discover some of Austen's sensibilities in it, I thought the writing was, all around, rather forgettable in comparison.
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Totally agree about your love/fight scene observation. As a Buffy fan at the time, and one who really wanted to see the storyline in question move forward, I thought that the scene was well done for various reasons. I think one of them is that there are so many shows that do a will they/won't they storyline yet when they're dragged out too long they carry a ton of expectations. As a result it's tough for them to pay off but I think this one did.
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I've been thinking more of the last sentence of your post -- differences with non-US productions. As I said, I don't gravitate towards shows that would by default include romantic/sex scenes because that's not my thing. And in terms of non-US/Canadian productions, I mostly watch British stuff. I will say that one big difference in general is that UK shows cast actors who look like real people -- e.g. older, not stunningly beautiful model types. So if there is any sort of romantic scene (not just sex scene), it's maybe more relatable because the people look like normal people? I've watched a lot of Danish productions too, e.g. Borgen, Forbrydelson, Bron/Broen, etc. but again, not shows where sex scenes were really going to come up much, if at all.
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And I had long noticed the same about older British shows, though I must say that it's become very similar now with the U.S. when it comes to younger cast members. They are just all more attractive and casting for looks seems important. However what's still quite different is older actors. For starters, the older actors are more likely to look their age, and the older actors also seem more likely to be in romantic storylines. So there's still a greater sense of normality there.